I only post that as a TOPIC here because it now looks like it will never happen. A Big 12 meeting is set for Oct. 17, but it now looks as it will be futile on any expansion moves. All a rather strange ending to a subject that has created hundreds of sports articles across the internet and in newspapers across the Midwest since Big 12 officials announced possible intentions to expand last July. This not expanding looks like a clear indication that the Big 12 will not exist as it is now known past 2025, that is the time the Big 12 television contracts with ESPN & Fox expire along with the conference’s Grant of Rights. Both Texas & Oklahoma have refused efforts by the other 8 members of the Big 12 to extend that Grant of Rights agreement in any way. This all could eventually effect the SEC and therefore Arkansas. Texas may end up in the B1G or anywhere after 2025. Not likely the SEC though. However Oklahoma is not AAU as the B1G desires and their best landing spot is probably the SEC . Many say Oklahoma would have came into the SEC in place of Missouri but the SEC refused OSU. Many believe taking care of OSU was why the president of Oklahoma, David Boren made all the noise about expansion months back. However David Boren is now singing a totally different tune on expansion. That may mean Boren and the Oklahoma board of regents now put less stock in taking care of OSU. They say those board of regents who are Boren’s bosses changed his tune on Big 12 expansion. They are against it.
Whether the Big 12 expands now or not, it is not likely to survive past the end of the current Grant of Rights. Which is probably how Texas wants it, and we’ve all seen that in the Big 12, as in the SWC, Texas gets what it wants (which is why Texas would never join the SEC). I think the Oklahoma politicians want OSU to come along for the ride wherever OU winds up, but it takes someone on the other end to take them too. SEC might or might not go along. SEC might or might not even want to take OU alone.
That is totally correct, however not expanding seems to rubber stamp that. The SEC may never accept Oklahoma with OSU. However that demand of inclusion of OSU by Oklahoma could already be changing. I have read that Oklahoma tried to go to the Pac 12 but were refused due to OSU. If no P4 conference will accept OSU, one can see the dilemma that puts Oklahoma, they are literally hog tied to the Big 12 by OSU. As I noted, the abrupt change in Boren towards the issue of expansion could be an indication of Oklahoma loosening an obligation to do what is best for OSU. I think the SEC would take just Oklahoma in a heartbeat. Who would have thought Texas A&M could get away from the Longhorns in the Texas legislature? Houston is who is getting axed in all this. They will lose millions in ultimate Big 12 dollars and surely Herman as well. Beating Oklahoma was probably the worst thing they could have done.
I thought beating OU was Houston’s golden ticket into the B12. Hardly an argument as to why they don’t deserve to be there. In any event, am I the only one who thinks the demise of the B12 might benefit AR recruiting in TX?
I certainly agree that the Houston win made them more than deserving. However the old proverb of life not always being fair comes into play. The four Big 12 members in Oklahoma & Kansas recruit that Houston southeast Texas area heavily. Taking Houston from the AAC and making them a P5 powerhouse will not help their Texas recruiting in their eyes. There is also the issue of a further power shift from the plains of the Big 12 to Texas and an additional strong Texas opponent to perhaps for them lose to. Any additional school entering the Big 12 must have 8 schools vote in there favor. That means three schools can blackball any entry. The two Oklahoma schools would surely vote as a block. Mike Gundy, the Oklahoma State football coach was very outspoken concerning his concern about the entry of Houston effecting his Texas recruiting before that OU/Houston game. That game just gave Gundy more reason to fear. You take the two Oklahoma votes against Houston, they just need one more to kill Houston entry.
Never thought that far ahead on the recruiting issue. However taking TCU, Baylor and maybe even TT out of P5 status certainly would not hurt.
Big 12 expansion is unique from anything similar in the SEC or B1G. They are dealing totally with G5 schools on a totally extremely different economic level. BYU has been nullified from any real consideration by LGBT issues in a conduct code that BYU had. Iowa State has formed groups to demonstrate against BYU admission into the Big 12. BYU was always stated as David Boren’s favorite as a Big 12 add early in the process. West Virginia is reportedly against the admission of Cincinnati. One of the biggest obstacles to Big 12 expansion may simply be that no one can get a consensus of the 8 necessary votes.
thanks to Frank for getting us out of the SWC or we could be in this mess also. A&M has also gotta be giving their thanks. Missouri, who cares.
A big mess is right. Boren started this latest carnival adventure when he publicly stated to the world a year ago to the dismay of all in the Big 12 that it was “psychologically disadvantaged.” Ever since then the Big 12 has only proven to be again terminally dysfunctional. Without Broyles’ innovative move in 1990, Arkansas would be sitting right along with the eight dwarfs as they call them waiting for the other shoe to drop. That being when Texas & Oklahoma say goodbye and close the door on the Big 12 existence as a P5 conference.
If Texas or OU go PAC-12, schools will point out the time difference and the wear and tear of travel to the west coast. Texas didn’t get back to Austin until 7 am the next day after playing Cal. That’s brutal.
A process that was started on July 19, of this year came to a climax this afternoon. That being the Big 12’s exploration into expansion. All ten Big 12 representatives of the member institutions voted unanimously this afternoon against any expansion. They declared this whole nearly three month saga with the vote outcome today as a strengthening experience and this final outcome a statement of Big 12 solidarity onward into the future.
It was reported in the last several days that ESPN & Fox were willing to pay the Big 12 millions not to expand. There is what ESPN & Fox term a loop hole in their TV contracts with the Big !2. A pro rata clause is in the TV contracts that provides nearly 25 million additional for each & every school added to the Big 12. This was done by the TV networks with the intent of new members being from P5 conferences, not G5 conferences. The TV networks considered it a good faith gesture and were very displeased at the thought of the way it might be used by the Big 12 with G5 schools. ESPN & Fox are reportedly willing to pay big time to have that pro rata clause removed from their Big 12 TV contact for the future.
Both Oklahoma & TCU had come out publicly in the last several weeks against expansion. With any school needing eight Big 12 members to vote for their admittance that left absolutely no wiggle room and more or less made today’s decision inevitable. Texas & Oklahoma refused all during this to extend the Big 12 Grant of Rights agreement. I don’t see strength displayed anywhere in all this. It looked like a directionless fiasco that wasted a lot of people’s time. I am sure a lot of administrators at schools like Houston, BYU and Cincinnati are saying some things about the Big 12 tonight privately unprintable on this site.
Guess that makes the [Big - 12] half right! :lol:
Leave it to the Baby 12 to be arrogant and dysfunctional.
Comment: TCU is visible reminder for the original schools as to what can happen to your conference when you add a school that has attractive resources. UT has fallen from first choice to 4th and if Houston was allowed in they would fall further …
Arrogant will surely be one of many defaming references privately uttered towards the Big 12 by those G5 schools that were jerked around. Money is the big brass ring in the conference advancement game just like everything else. The difference in getting a couple of million yearly with G5 affiliation and the tens of millions yearly with P5 affiliation is what all those Big 12 wanabes aspired to, over $25 million yearly in most all cases. Instead they were all out $10,000 - $15.000 each with expenses for their own personal interviews in Dallas several weeks back, all 11 of them. All that for nothing. Making it all public was the most dysfunctional part. Think how secretive conference expansion has always been in the past. This was a dog & pony show with the Big 12 as the clowns.
If the B12 can remain at 10 members, and if they can push the playoffs to 8 teams, they will be the smart guys in the room. The 5 P5 conference champs could get automatic bids, and the remaining 3 bids could be “at large.” Probably a pretty interesting playoff picture. This would leave the B12 an easier path to the playoffs for any member. None would likely experience a “meat grinder” schedule, with the B12 champ automatically in the big dance.
The only thing I would be concerned with is the SEC asking Oklahoma to join. I think adding them would hurt us in recruiting. Right now we can get some of the Oklahoma and Texas kids because they would like to play in the SEC. We used to have that advantage over A&M. Since they joined the SEC they have the advantage in Texas.
I think it’s best for Arkansas that the Big 12 to stay solvent.
We already got the raw end of the deal when A&M and Missouri joined the SEC - both in states that border Arkansas. It’s a recruiting issue that didn’t help us at all. They should have pursued Florida State or Clemson in the east - that way, they wouldn’t have had to create this bogus “rivalry” Battle-line thingy we now have with Mizzou. FSU/Florida and South Carolina/Clemson don’t require a made-up rivalry, and it wouldn’t have hurt our recruiting in two border states.
The SEC was thinking of state footprints with regards to carriage rights in the cable TV world. The SEC gets money from their network based on where a cable subscriber lives. They get $1.40 for each subscriber in a state with an SEC school located within, but only 25 cents for each subscriber in a state with no SEC team.
Texas A&M with the huge Texas population along with Missouri therefore provided huge profits the way the cable carriage system is currently set-up. Some believe that system might change in the decades ahead. FSU & Clemson provide no carriage bump in increase because Florida & South Carolina already have the SEC carriage footprint in those states.
Oklahoma & Texas will not provide that big of a cable TV money windfall because the SEC already has Texas A&M to get the high carriage rates in Texas and Oklahoma has a small population. A North Carolina & Virginia school are always mentioned as the logical SEC adds in this cable TV world with their huge populations presently up-tapped by the SEC.
All these schools on the west side of the SEC hurt the Hogs in recruiting when added to the SEC. I had rather see FSU, Clemson, North Carolina or Virginia schools added to the SEC.
The picture has now been made pretty clear on the reasons for the closure of Big 12 expansion explorations minus any results on Oct. 17. First, it is the belief of many that no candidate school could get the 8 required Big 12 member votes to accomplish joining the Big 12. It all came down to Houston not being able to get those 8 votes necessary even with the help of the 4 Texas Big 12 schools. So then those Texas schools vetoed every other candidate school right down the toilet.
Secondly, ESPN & Fox put their foot down. Threatening Court and maybe even future TV contract negotiations after 2024 with them if the Big 12 had exercised that TV pro rata clause that gave the Big 12 $25 million per year per school on any school added. Instead, it has now been reported by many sources that ESPN will now pay the Big 12 $10 millions over the next 8 years to have that pro rata clause removed from their TV contract with the Big 12.
Let’s put that all in perspective. The Big 12 gave up potentially $800 million over the next 8 years if they had expanded by 4 schools to get $10 million over the next 8 years. It looks to me as a casual observer that ESPN & Fox brought out big guns against expansion or the Big 12 was crazy. I am sure it was court litigation threats and a breaking of all future contact with the Big 12 after 2024. Fox however is the Cool Hand Luke in all this, they are giving the Big 12 nothing to kill the same type pro rata clause in their TV contract with the Big 12. That smacks of pretty good evidence of security by Fox that the Big 12 will never expand in the future.
Most people think the Big 12 is dead in 8 years after the 2024 season when those TV contracts and the GOR expire. Most people seem to think Texas & Oklahoma will enter the SEC at that time just due to geographic convenience. They don’t really fit in the north with the B1G or on the west coast with the Pac 12. I always hoped the SEC would get a North Carolina & Virginia school and then move Missouri to the West Division of the SEC. However that now looks 20 years away with ACC GOR extensions and an ACC TV Network starting up in 2019, if ever happening.
Been doing a little thinking since that above post. A Texas & Oklahoma added to the SEC. Of course put them in the West. Then bring Missouri back over to the West where they rightfully belong. Then put the two Alabama schools in the East. You then have an SEC as follows:
WEST
Arkansas
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Missouri
Texas A&M
Texas
Oklahoma
East
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Vandy
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
Kentucky
This will be a stronger SEC in perhaps several ways. Obviously strengthened power wise with the additions of Oklahoma & Texas. It will also eliminate the need of those blame crossover division games Alabama demanded to play Tennessee yearly. The Auburn/Georgia yearly game was also a big cog in those mandatory crossover division games as well. Both those crossover games would now no longer be necessary.
Auburn wanted to go to the East when Missouri entered the SEC. Alabama blocked it because they could not play both Tennessee & Auburn in crossover division games. So Missouri went to the SEC East.
You spend any time on big multi conference boards. All you hear from B1G people is Missouri would bail from the SEC in a minute on a B1G invite. I am not so sure of that. I think a lot of bad blood exists between Missouri & B1G beyond the recent rebuff of Missouri by the B1G when they took Nebraska. The bad blood goes back to 1990 when Penn State entered the B1G. I think that bad blood was why the B1G did not recently take Missouri with Nebraska. I was living in Indianapolis for several years in the real early 1990’s. I remember reading a small article buried in the back section of the Indianapolis newspaper sports section that Missouri had refused discussing leaving the Big 8 with the B1G to come to the Big Ten with Penn State. That is your bad blood. Anyhow putting Missouri in the West playing two Texas schools where they can recruit Texas like old Big 12 days will make them SEC happy. As for Hog recruiting, it probably will be helped by none of this.
The SEC can then go to a 9 game conference schedule like most other P5 conferences and play everybody cross division home & home in 8 year cycles. That is an improvement over the present situation.