Yep I will continue to fight lies with the truth. FIRE JEFF LONG BOYCOTT THE PROGRAM UNTIL WE HIRE A GOOD COACH.
Most things in life go in cycles and football is no exception. Expectations are a good thing because they help to keep the staff/players focused. I see LSU’s Miles cycle has ended. Saban with the Tide seems to have long cycle as well. My expectations for the Razorbacks is 10+ wins every season and an SEC Championship/NC mixed in there somewhere. I see this CBB program continuing to improve and I am pleased thus far. I know we all want it NOW. HOGS YA’LL.
You keep saying I know we all want NOW as if he were hired this year or last year. These are his recruits. They have been in his system for 3-4 years. You talk about cycles how long is BB? by the 4th year I expect 10 wins PERIOD. That’s not too much to ask for. We have lost every year to Bama and A&M since he has been our coach. We haven’t been to one BCS game and don’t look any closer to getting there this year either. Your cycle may be 10? A realistic expectation would be 4 years. That give a coach enough time to implement his system and recruit his players. All the players on the team are his recruits. So, there is no excuses. NONE.
[quote=“bakedhog19741”]
CBP leaving had nothing to do with football so your statement really makes no sense. You said it depends on the amount of time you give them. Well, sir to you. How many more years should we wait until BB is able to have 10 wins in a season? Why not this year? He has recruited all of these players. They have been in his system for at least 3 years. So, how much longer should we wait? This should be the year. Really, last year should have been the year but he blew that.
This is BB 4th year and you are still bringing up JLS. JLS has nothing to do with what is going on now.
You keep bringing up BP. As much as BP was instrumental in bringing us to prominence, he was just as instrumental, along with JLS in burying us to the bottom of the pit.
BP didn’t take over a downtrodden embarrassed program here that was mired in scandal and was discussed negatively on every media outlet across the country. He took over a program that had recently put 2 all American RB’s plus one other in the NFL in the same year.
But he did create what I just mentioned and JLS came thru and pushed it deeper to the bottom. What coach could come in and immediately recruit and build it back after that in this league. The phones sure weren’t lit up by top college coaches wanting to interview for the AR job.
I’ll agree from a winning standpoint, I guess the UofA should have just said, Ok Bobby don’t do that again please you little lying a…hole. We are just little ole AR and we bow down to you sir.
Not sure how well he would have been able to recruit to AR after that though. If he would lie on national TV to his Boss and University, then he will lie a to recruit and his parents.
the way i look at it, is that 10 wins this year is still pretty achievable, especially if the bowl game is number 10. i think most of us would consider 10-3 record a good season, continuing the uptick we’ve been on. after Alcorn State we should be 4-1 with 7 games remaining. with road games at Auburn, MS State and Missouri, all of which are very winnable. Auburn looks better after beating lsu but their offense is suspect at best, defense is not bad but they’ve not faced an offense as diverse as ours. MS State and Mo arent as good as we are, not saying we cant lose 1 of them but wins should be expected on those games. that puts us at 7 wins. so to get to 10 we need to win 2 of 4 home games against solid teams, Bama, Ole Miss, Florida and LSU. i think 2-2 in those games is quite achievable. 9-3 would put us in an upper tier bowl, especially if one of those two wins is Bama. if we go to a good bow, win, and finish 10-3 in BB’s 4th season id say thats pretty remarkable given how bleak out outlook was when he arrived. here’s hoping LSU doesnt grow a brain and come after BB or even Enos.
[quote=“tawtam”]
Actually, I was referring to the reasons (notice plural) that he did leave. I’m not counting the mistress (as one person said there is nothing wrong with that, I disagree but we will leave that alone for now). There were FB players that were stealing from other students. That is making an unsafe environment for those students. He was using his and his players “winning” in order to get them back on the field with basically slap on the wrist. That alone was reason enough to fire CBP.
Now, all the players on this team are not his. There are players (Kody Walker for example) that are from the previous regime. Same with CBP at Louisville (some of those players are holdovers from Strong, 8 starters)… So, usually most coaches deserve 5 years.
Now, here is my thoughts on the 5 years:
If I’m an AD, I hire a coach for five years. That is the minimum time that all players from the previous regime (RS SR are 5 year players) would take to graduate. Now, there are exceptions (the aforementioned Walker is a 6 year guy). As an AD, I have to look at several things:
- Win/loss and improvement every year. I agree this is the most important for a coach (CBB in each year has improved).
- Fan support/attendance (that has also improved each year under CBB.
- Student part of Student Athlete (APR and GPA, this has also improved every year under CBB).
- Finally off field/court issues (such as people getting in trouble with the law).
Each time a coach improves those areas or meets predetermined standards, they should get a 3 month extension added to their 5 years. In CBB’s case, he has improved each of those areas each year, with the exception of record his first year (JLS was 4-8, CBB went 3-9). So, in 3 years he has earned + 11 extensions or 33 months. At the same time, each time a coach doesn’t meet criteria he loses 3 months. So, as of now. CBB is at 30 months. Now, this year isn’t over, so we have to wait to see if he extends or lessens his 30 months. I’d treat each coach the same. For example CMA for his first 4 years earned a 3 month extension in each area. That put him at 9 years. Last year (year 5) he actually took a step back in each area, so that’s a loss of an entire year. He’s now sitting at 8 years here.
Now, I’ve said this on another thread and I’ll add it to our discussion. I never thought CMA or CBB were good hires. I don’t think either one can accomplish what many expected in such a short time (most coaches get less than 10 years, really not that long when you think about it, for example how many season has HDN been gone?). For CBB, he is basically trying to out Bama Bama. Won’t work with 2 and 3 stars vs 4 and 5 stars. Now, when he was hired, I said 10 years minimum for him to accomplish that. One reason was Les would be out of the conference by then (check), second would be Saban retiring (he’s actually hinted he’s close a few times). The rest of the West seems to be having issues right now (Miss St is garbage, the Gus Bus has wrecked, and the NCAA is about to return Ole Miss to its glory days of being Ole Piss). So, leaving CBB here another 4 years (this is only year 4) he will by default be the most tenured coach and probably win a west title. (Just an FYI, when he was hired I considered him a rich man’s HDN). CMA on the other hand, Pel had taken us to Pre-Sutton era. It took Eddie 11 years, and Nolan another 6 to get us to where you want. That’s a minimum 17 years.
So here is my question to you, 10 years and 17 years, would you wait, or start over every 4 years, even though the coach is doing the right things?
After reading all that has been said,
Wishes and feelings are given too much weight;
Thankfully our coaches have clear heads,
By ignoring these fruitless debates;
So again we return to the start of this thread,
Your expectations young man are really not so great;
For the University of Arkansas is way, way ahead,
Because of our leaders who represent an entire state;
Many Universities are now respectfully dead,
Because seeking only wins they took the bait;
Seeking wins they integrity bled,
When finally only whiners were left to speculate;
The reality is armchair quarterbacks have little to dread, by what is said,
Without actual skin invested in speculative debate;
So optimistically I am looking far, far ahead’
As I partner with the University that seeks good over hate;
WoooPigSoooie! Thank you University of Arkansas
I am responding your numbers:
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CBB basically had the same number of wins as the year before as far as I am concerned. Why do I say that? He played a team that shouldn’t have even been in that bowl. They had to win their last game just to make it in. Everyone knew KS didn’t have a chance. That was a gimme win. Not CBB fault but never the less a gimme game. So, he wins 1 more than the year before. But he also had horrible loses. Toledo, Tech, and A&M. And he almost lost to La Tech this year. What’s with these close games with mid tier teams every year. I get that one may sneak up on you every now and then but this has become every year.
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Arkansas hovers around 66,000 every year. About what they have done with every coach after the expansion was done.
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Frankly, the kids GPA are about where they have always been. It may be a little better based on the fact less guys are going pro and staying in school. But who cares really. People love to act like kids going to class has to do with coaching. That’s garbage. These coaches don’t go by where these kids live everyday and make sure they go to class. Now, back in the day when they had athletic dorms they could monitor that more closely. But giving CBB credit for what these young men do in the classroom is ridiculous. Secondly, I don’t like mixing academics with sports. Why? Because they don’t go hand in hand. The NCAA and Universities could care less about these kids getting degrees. If they did they would be able to keep their scholarships after they have used their eligibility to finish. Everyone doesn’t finish school in four years. But that’s another subject. My point is that people love to bring up academics when you can’t talk about winning. That’s what all the other schools do when the SEC is in the title game. Then fans from Stanford talk about Bama and how dumb their athletes are ect… This is football not the debate team.
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Bama, FSU, OSU, Oregons and others top teams have had their off the field issues. And who really cares? Do you think the few issues they had takes away from being a top tier team? CBB has had some issues with some players. it happens. But if that’s all we are looking for to be proud of our team why even play the game? We should just be happy the the kids don’t get into trouble during off season.
CBB came to a team was one year off of being top 10 two years in a row. Kids looked at the football team differently than the basketball team. All the years not making the tournament. It is much harder to recruit because the last time Arkansas was a constant NCAA team they weren’t even born. MA had a harder rode than CBB. It is true that JLS destroyed allot but that was one year. Unlike the football team that had some recent history with winning…the basketball team only made post season play 3 times from 2002-2011. Hard to get kids to come to your program when they haven’t seen in the NCAA’s. We have made post season play twice since MA has been coaching and after last year there were some fans still calling for his head. The glory days of the 90’s are never coming back. And that’s a different subject all together.
I would NEVER EVER give a coach 10 years. It takes 3-4 years to recruit players to play in your system. By the 4th years those guys are gone and a new crew is coming behind them. Waiting 10 years for either coach is ridiculous. I have followed the Hogs all my life. I thought they would always be average and every blue moon a good season thrown in the mix. That’s the MO of Arkansas football. Until, I saw CBP come in here and give us a top 10 team two years in a row. And no other coach has ever done that. He did it his 3rd and 4th year as coach. Yes, he came under a little better circumstances however, he still had to get players to run his system and recruit. So, you tell me why should we be willing to wait 10-17 years for those same results? The fact that you added Eddie Suttons years to NR is crazy too(17 Years?). There is no logic in your statement. Eddie Sutton had us in the tournament almost every year. NR did the same thing but really put us in the national spot light doing it a completely different way. What Eddie did had no affect on what NR did. Two different coaches and they coached in a different era. Furthermore, NR starting winning and taking the team in post season play his second year. So, I really don’t get your 11 and 6 statement. I am not asking for a title right now. I would at least like to see this football team 9-11 wins a years and ranked a the end of the season. CBB has failed to do that.
Just responding to the Eddie/Nolan comment. If Eddie had not come before Nolan, Nolan would not have had success here. You just said it by saying CMA was at a disadvantage because of our lack of tourneys. Eddie had us in the tourney every year (this is correct, but it’s like a FB coach only winning 8-9 games and getting to a bowl) he did gets us to a FF (equivalent of CFP or 10+ wins) but only once. Then Nolan showed up, with AR as nationally relevant. Nolan in his 2nd year made the NIT (something you said would be unacceptable if CMA did it this year). Then he made it to the tourney (again equivalent of 8-9 wins and a bowl in FB, something you said was unacceptable). So according to you, Nolan should have never been given a 5th year (the year that really exploded us on the National Championship talk every year). That IS what you’re saying. That’s why people are arguing with you, Saintly, and Deere. If Nolan wouldn’t have been given an extra year, we wouldn’t have had the glory days. So, here is the new question for you three, why is it not acceptable for CBB, but was acceptable for Nolan?
You BP haters love to bring up JLS demise on on. He had nothing to do with what JLS did. Furthermore, the fact that Arkansas had 2 RB All Americans means squat. They still only won 8 games. You are sad. You post things that are not facts to fit your argument. BP had us in the top 10 two years in a row. I am partial to winning. What he did with that girl was no reflection on the team. And that fact that you said he will lie to a recruit and parent…YOU have no proof of that. If you call being in the top 10 pushing deeper…GIVE ME DEEPER BABY. You can have this horse crap of mediocrity. It’s like you are calling a bottled water dom perignon. By the way, the phones are never lit up for coaches coming to Arkansas. Where in the heck have you been living under a rock. We always get some up and coming coach or some mid tier coach. We lucked into BP because Atlanta was going to fire him…that’s another story. When you talk please post facts to go along with it.
That’s a BS statement about NR. Eddie success had nothing to do with NR success…PERIOD… That kind of crap gets me fired up. NR had to start from scratch to bring in the type of basketball he wanted. No recruit has ever said they played for NR because of what Eddie did. I give Eddie credit for putting Arkansas on the map in basketball. However, that did nothing to help NR. That may be your opinion but there is no proof to substantiate that. Not from one NR recruit and not from NR. Furthermore, what you are saying is nonsense about NR shouldn’t have gotten a 5th year. By NR 3rd year we were in the NCAA tournament every year. So, I don’t know where you are getting that from. Maybe you are just thinking national title. I am not talking title about football. I am just talking respectability. A program that is ranked at the end of the season and playing in decent bowls instead of the toilet bowl. Let’s start there first. By NR 3rd year…not 4th or 5th or 6th we were playing in the NCAA tournament.
I will repeat this again. Please, don’t put NR success on Eddie. then by your argument BB should have us in the top 10 by now just as CBP did in his 3rd and 4th year. One coaches success or lack there of is no reflection of another coach when they have been there 4 years.
Hey I think you need to go back and study comprehension 101 before replying with your so called facts. Where did I say BP had anything to do with JLS. I spoke of JLS AFTER THE FACT when BP was fired. I even agreed that from a winning standpoint the UofA should have just bowed down to Bobby. And you are correct he may not lie to a recruit or his parents but he sure as h… will lie over and over to the people, administration that were writing his checks and lying to his fans such as you and a lot more of us at that time with all the cameras flashing away. That is FACT!
Also I never mentioned how many games we won with those AA-RB’s, just implied that they drew a lot of attention to AR, and to further that the 3rd was on the cover of the Madden Video Game.
Your right, what Bobby did with that girl and LYING about it was not a reflection on the team, but a reflection on the University and this state and his fans like you and me and 1000’s more here.
BTW we don’t always get some up and coming mid tier coach at AR unless your classifying Frank Broyles, Lou Holtz, Kenny Hatfield as that. They had established themselves elsewhere. Even pulled Holtz from the NFL in similar fashion we got Bobby.
There is your FACTS!!!
Learn to slow down and read more thoroughly, comprehend the message, and think before replying.
Your quote "As much as BP was instrumental in bringing us to prominence, he was just as instrumental, along with JLS in burying us to the bottom of the pit. " You included him with JLS. As far as BP lying over and over again about something he did is typical of what most people would do to stay out of trouble. Duh. I know why you brought up two All American RB. Anyone with common sense could see that you posted that as a way to show that CBP walked into a better situation. They may be true if they were both still there. But they were GONE. Yes, D-Mack brought attention to Arkansas…But he was GONE. BP decision was a reflection on the Univ. I agree. Not this state. Fans took it that way but I don’t think anyone looked at Arkansas and said I won’t move there because of what he did. Thank you, I comprehend just fine.
You are forgetting some big things in your statement. NR had to start from scratch…Why? Because he played a different brand of basketball that even fans in this state initially hated. So, this fan base didn’t like his brand of basketball at first calling it Ni$$er ball and sent him hate mail. Even in the mist of his daughter dying. In other words, he had to recruit his players in a state where the fan whole fan base wasn’t on board. Those recruits didn’t see Arkansas as being this great team with a NCAA history, they saw an opportunity to play for a coach that won’t hand cuff the way they would like to play. So, he built it from scratch and did it his way and that had NOTHING to do with Eddie. Basketball even changed because of his style of play (3 point line, defensive count above the front line, shot clock). Now there are allot of teams that press allot and run the floor. What’s hard for MA is that very reason plus you combine that with few NCAA tournaments. Eddie Sutton didn’t win a title for Arkansas NR did. The only credit Eddie gets is making Arkansas respectable basketball program. However, we were never ever mentioned with the names of UK, Zona ect… until NR got there.
You are full of crap and just proved it. Thank you, now everyone on the board sees you having nothing to contribute. You said that CMA had issues because we had only been to 3 tourneys in 10 years, then turn around and said that Eddie has nothing to do with it when he has 10 straight trips to the post season. Shows that you are arguing just to argue because your saying it didn’t matter with Nolan but mattered with Mike. Again YOUR WORDS.
Making the NIT (Nolan’s second year) is no better than going 6-6 as a FB coach and going to toilet bowl (CBB’s second year). Going to the NCAAT as an 11 seed is no different than 7-5 and going one step up in bowls (NR’s 3rd year, CBB’s 3rd year). NR’s 4th year 5 seed is like a FB coach going 9-3 and making the Capital One bowl or Taxslayer (formerly Gator Bowl, which is where we are projected). So as of now, by YOUR own statements CBB is doing what YOU expect. So what is the REAL reason your against him?
“As far as BP lying over and over again about something he did is typical of what most people would do to stay out of trouble. Duh.”
So the ends justifies the means? Go cheer for Louisville, vote for Hillary and enjoy your life.
Yawn!!!
So typical,