The perception of the SEC

So, I’ve been listening to Bo’s show this week and he’s had a lot of basketball analyst on this week.

All of the interviews were good, but just listening to these guys they all are just really down on the SEC. Jerry Palm, who is the CBS bracketologist, interview was very interesting to me and kinda sums up the way the media portrays the league. Now keep in mind he has us as a 9 seed in his current bracket, yet he says even if we win 24-25 games, it’s possible we wouldn’t make the tournament, unless we win @SC or @FL. Which I ran the scenario of us winning 25 games and losing @SC and @FL on rpiforecast and our predicted RPI would be 24 with 68 SOS. If we were to miss the tournament with a resume like that it would be one of the biggest snubs in tournament history.

And the thing that gets me, they always say the SEC hasn’t beat anybody and there’s hardly any quality wins within the conference. Yet, if somebody of another conference beats a team in the SEC, they say it’s a quality win for that school. For example, when Minnesota is talked about in national media they always mention the Arkansas win as a good win for them. Then they’ll turn around and talk about the SEC and say there’s only 3 good teams in the conference and won’t even mention Arkansas. How does that make sense? So, we’re a good win for another team, but not a good team?

Also, look at this. Auburn, who is 2-4 in SEC play, beat Oklahoma and Texas Tech of the Big 12 on neutral courts. Texas Tech is considered a “good” tournament team and Oklahoma just beat #7 West Virginia on their own court. So, that kinda confuses me on how the SEC is “so bad” yet one of our worst teams beat two Big 12 schools on a neutral court, and the media raves about how good the big 12 is. And there’s plenty more examples of that this year. Texas A&M beat V-Tech, Tenneseee & Georgia beat Georgia Tech, South Carolina beat Syracuse and Michigan, Florida has beaten Seaton Hall and Miami, We’ve beat UT-Arlington and Houston, Kentucky has beat Michigan State and North Carolina. All of these schools I named are either firmly in the field or bubble teams. Yet, the media will tell you the SEC doesn’t have any “quality wins.”

I tend to agree with him about the sec. if it gets 4 at large bids, it will be us or nobody. But then I think of so many possible different scenarios, it seems crazy to think we definetly need 25 wins in lieu of a w against a top 25 team. But I mean you said it too blu… wins against other tournament teams matter big, and it looks like all the teams we beat so far could be left out. But that is just one scenario, there are many many more scenarios possible. That is why they play the games.

If we would have beaten Minnesota they would be saying that is a good win and they would be saying there are four good teams in the sec.

If auburn would have beat ou and tech then NOT started conference play 0-3, maybe everybody wouldn’t be talking about the sec is so weak. But that is what pretty much all the sec teams do is lose games they are supposed to win, and mostly it is due to how depressing the home crowds are. Things been fine on neutral courts sure.

We just need to win, at home especially.

My point is, how can they say we are a good win for Minnesota, but we are not a good team? If the tournament started today, we’d be a 9 seed according to ESPN and CBS. Since when is a 9 seed not a good team? 14-4, 31 RPI, you’re a good team by any standards.

Also, as far as wins against other tournament teams. It’s 36 at-large bids. Can you name 36 teams that have a win against teams projected in the field, and we’re talking about projected at-large teams, not projected automatic bid. You can’t because there’s not that many teams that have them. And some teams that have them, like an Auburn, don’t have the RPI to even be considered for the field, so they automatically get eliminated from the conversation. I just find it disingenuous for Jerry Palm to say Arkansas won’t make it in, if they don’t beat Florida or South Carolina, yet as of today we haven’t beat either of them, and he predicts us in as his 9 seed on the bracket he made because he couldn’t find teams with a better resume than us, to justify us not being in the field. And that goes back to them just pushing the whole SEC is bad in hoops narrative, the same way they push this Arkansas is bad on the road narrative, it’s just not true.

Ya I didnt hear all what jerry palm said so I dont really know what he thinks, but it sounds like he thinks we are a good team and shouldn’t lose 4 more conference games bc the sec is weak, and we will be in the tournament. That is what I think anyways.

It is scary how sec is that bad though, and we started so slow, there is really zero margin for error now. Of course a big win changes everything, which we’ll have plenty of opportunity left. But we haven’t got that benefit so far. So we really can’t afford losing to any of the rest of the sec - especially if what is supposed to happen at the sec big 12 challenge happens.

I was hoping Georgia, or a surprise team in the west would do something in the non conference to raise our bids for the sec. But they didn’t. Neither did we or the top sec teams really.

I think we should win out, except at Florida (and Stillwater will be rough!). And I like our chances on neutral courts in March.

Disregard the media. NCAA is not prejudice. They look at facts and figures and reasonable comparisons. Media is trying to take away entries from us and give it to their own favorite schools.

South Carolina got snubbed last year. And the hogs will probably get snubbed this year. The Mid major thing has taken over!
We beat Kentucky 2 years ago and in my eyes were snubbed. The hogs are not a national favorite nor is the SEC.
Enjoy the season and expect to take a snub!
I hate Kentucky wonder how long the their fan base will be happy with the NBA mini camp that does not win the National Championship! The hogs do more with less and always have.

One thing that I noticed it’s just the CBS Networks/analyst that seem to be pushing the whole “SEC is bad Agenda” I’m not a conspiracy theory guy, but I’m starting to wonder if it has anything to do with the SEC Network being through ESPN, so they try to push positive narratives for other conferences that they broadcast more games for. Because these CBS guys will go out of their way to bash SEC basketball.

I was watching Inside College Basketball on the CBS Sports Network, and they went on 5 minute rant about how bad the SEC is. Saying this is only 3 bid league, Kentucky is the whole league, and how bad everybody else is. Then John Rothestein goes on a rant saying how he wishes people would stop talking about how the SEC basketball is on an uptick when it’s not. Then they bashed Florida and South Carolina for their losses today, especially South Carolina. And they something that completely lost me. They said South Carolina is a good defensive team, but doesn’t have enough offensive firepower to beat good teams. I don’t even like South Carolina, but how can you say they don’t have offensive firepower when Thornwell just dropped 34 against Kentucky and he’s averaging 18 PPG. Then they got PJ Dozier, Duane Notice, and Chris Silva as well, any of these guys can you 15+ points on any given night. Just because they can beat teams with defense doesn’t mean they can’t score, that’s far from the truth.

Doug Gottleib and Seth Davis are garbage. They are just full time haters. They jump on anything that is popular to hate. It is easy to pile on the sec as football conference with too much media coverage, and games like Florida South Carolina last week make it easy to say it’s ugly. We just have to keep winning. If we get it rolling there are plenty of folks that will jump on our bandwagon just to be contrary to whatever those two d bags are saying about their March bracket projections.

Speaking of the CBS guys, look what one of them tweets this morning. They literally go out of there way to bash the SEC every chance they get it. It’s almost unprofessional, because I never see them bash another league.

Did you read the tweet he linked too? Espn desperate to squeeze $$ out of investment…

Wth. How does espn make money from sec teams making dance? It’s all covered by cbs networks. Maybe stoking interest in regular season sec network games? But come on, Joe blow in jersey ain’t going to flip over to sec tv just because it is a legit 5 bid league instead of 3.

These d bags are just desperate for talking points that resonate in the twittersphere/ don’t have any original analysis or insights/ got to pile on the obvious talking points over and over/ NOBODY is even saying the sec is up at this point in the season!! They are trying to keep this tired old controversy alive when it has lost all relevance outside of some New Yorker basketball blogger conversations at the loser table at Angelos pizza.

So, it’s CBS & Jon Rothstein (whoever). Beauty of it, they can’t influence the NCAA committee. Meanwhile we the conference members need to continue to improve.

Florida, Kentucky and Arkansas are in the top 16 for nonconference RPI.

Problem is the SEC’s nonconference record was slightly under 70% wins.

The Big 12 and ACC are over 81%. The Big East, 77%. The Big Ten, 76%.

The fifth-best conference might be relegated to three bids out of 14 teams, if everybody in the middle of the SEC ends up in a giant, indistinguishable pile of near-.500 conference records.

A couple of details:

The SEC’s nonconference record against top 25 RPI opponents is 1-20.

The SEC’s nonleague record against teams ranked 26-50 in RPI is 3-13.

That’s 4-33 against the RPI top 50. The ACC is 17-18.

Another comparison - the West Coast Conference is 7-11 against the nonconference RPI top 50. The SEC failed miserably in nonleague play.

If you don’t mind me asking where did you get those stats from? Not saying they are inaccurate, but none of the sites I’ve been on give complete conference breakdowns like that. I’d like to bookmark it, cause those numbers will always come in handy.

Also, nobody is arguing the SEC being the best conference, it’s not, as you’ve shown by the numbers. However, it’s not as bad as some analyst try to portray. They say it’s Kentucky and everybody else, and it’s a 3 bid max league, which is not true. There’s some quality teams in the league. And I’m not even talking about the teams like Florida, South Carolina, Georgia, and Arkansas, who all are still very much in contention for a tournament bid. You look at teams like Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee, and Alabama, these are teams that may not be tournament teams, but they have talent and can compete with anyone in the country on any given night. You can put these teams in any league, and they would be competitive. Tennessee lost @NC by 2 points when they were the #7 team in the nation. Auburn beat a veteran Texas Tech team on a neutral site. Mississippi State held close to Kentucky for the majority of the game. Even Missouri, who’s the worst team in the conference competes hard, they lost to Xavier by 1 point on a neutral site. The league isn’t full of scrub teams like they make it out to be.

This site can give you an idea. It doesn’t break down NC and in-conference top 50 games, but there haven’t been a lot of in-conference top 50 games.

I checked on one number Randy listed. Kentucky alone is 2-2 against top 50 RPI teams (beat North Carolina and Michigan State). Florida beat Seton Hall. A&M beat Virginia Tech. And that’s it. We can add one (temporarily) Saturday; temporarily because if we beat Okie Lite they’ll drop out of the top 50. I didn’t add up the top 50 losses but the percentage is not good.

Here you go BLU and Swine - CBS: … conference

Five of those wins are by Gonzaga and the other 2 by Saint Mary’s. Saint Mary’s beat Nevada at home and got a good win over Dayton on the road. They lost to #51 UT-Arlington at home by 15. The other 8 teams in the WCC are 100+ in the RPI. That kind of points out that conference record against the top 50 isn’t much of a metric for comparison without looking at the fine print.

The ACC is by far the strongest conference from top to bottom, but the records against the top 50 exaggerate the differences between the SEC and ACC. Look at head-to-head:

  1. UNC - lost to #1 UK by 3 on neutral and beat #8 UT by 2 at home.

  2. FSU - defeated #3 UF by 5 at home.

  3. Louisville - beat #1 UK by 3 at home.

  4. Va Tech - lost to #9 A&M on neutral and beat #10 Ole Miss by 5 at home.

  5. Ga Tech - blown out by 17 at home by #7 UGA and by 23 on the road by #8 UT.

  6. Syracuse - lost to #2 USC by 14 on neutral.

  7. Duke - defeated #3 UF by 10 neutral.

  8. Miami - lost to #3 UF by 9 on neutral.

  9. WF - blew out #13 LSU by 34 at home

  10. BC - edged #11 Auburn by 1 on neutral.

  11. Clemson - beat #7 UGA by 10 at home, #4 Bama by 7 on the road, and #2 USC by 2 on the road.

Except for the inexplicable inability for anyone in the SEC to take down Clemson, I don’t exactly see domination there. I do see a lot of narrow victories by ACC teams at home over SEC teams. 7 games were played in ACC gyms, 3 in SEC gyms. You have to figure some of those SEC losses would be reversed at a different venue. Should the ACC get more teams than the SEC in the dance? Obviously they should. But a 10-3 split like some are proposing? No way.

This happens every single season. At this time of year the power conferences are going to wipe the floor with the mid-majors in the tourney. This conference or that conference is soooo much better than the rest. Then they play the tourney. Most of the time mid-majors win their share, and the great middle of the power conferences don’t have a lot of separation. No conference should get 10 teams in.

I say watch today in this challenge games, Im calling SEC 7-3 outta the Ten Games! If so, the way the SEC is viewed will change tonight! Today is the day the SEC can make a statement!!! I hope my Hogs do for sure! WPS!!!

Just curious who you are picking today. I saw more of 5-5, which is still better than what was projected.

I like Kentucky, Florida, Arkansas, Georgia, Auburn, and Tennessee, as in those teams have a real shot. But half could easily lose too.

It’s going to be interesting. SEC could over achieve at 6-4, or just as easily fall 4-6. My actual prediction is sec 5-5 with the teams above except Auburn pulling out Ws.