Okay. I think we have taken my view on paying players as far as we need to go. I say pay, most say no. Let’s take the view of the majority. The University doesn’t pay. Okay, now what? Is the status quo acceptable? If it is, then please stop complaining and calling on this coach or that coach to be replaced every few years. Please don’t give me that all we need is a coach that can sell the program and cultivate relationships with potential recruits. What good is cultivating a relationship when a currier walks up to our recruit, hands them an envelope saying, “You can have this and more. If you sign with our team.”. If the status quo is not acceptable, then what do we do to compete with teams that have no reservations about paying? Do we report on teams who are paying? Who do we report to? The NCAA? Not being sarcastic here. I would really like to hear some solutions to this problem.

Can you at least wait until Muss coaches a game before you panic?

Why? Right now is a great time to trol…I mean panic

Great solutions guys. As usual you grandstand and try to make yourselves seem bigger than you actually are. You two love to act like your the experts and know what to do at any given moment. Well? What are your solutions to teams paying players? What’s that? Silence or more snarky comments? Why am I not surprised.

Actually we have a whole other thread discussing this. You didn’t like that no one was agreeing with you, so you started another one. Guess what, no one still agrees with you. Now, instead of posting the same thing over and over, post something new, or maybe better yet, that supports the Razorbacks.

Your need for a solution is based on your projection that past performance under the prior HCs will be a reliable indicator of future results under the new HC. In and of itself that’s just not a sound logic. We really won’t have any idea how good EM’s teams will be for some time, so right now you are asking about a solution in search of a problem.

Perhaps more to the point, you’ve piled up some assumptions that I just don’t think bear up under scrutiny. First, you assume the primary reason MA did not win big is because Arkansas did not pay to get better players. That premise ignores a whole host of factors unrelated to recruiting. Player development, off-court trouble, poor recruiting choices(both would sign, MA chose the wrong guy) coaching style, transfers, early entries, etc. all factored in to the win-loss total. How many times in the last six years did people accuse MA of underachieving with the talent he had? Better players would have helped, but the causes of failure were a lot more complex

Second, you assume that since MA did not get it done without paying players, nobody can get it done without paying players. This in turn assumes either that MA was as good a coach as we could ever get, or that coaching ability is not a major factor in predicting wins and losses in a Power Conference. I don’t think either assumption is valid.

Third, you assume that very few highly ranked recruits will sign if they don’t get paid. Since there’s no way to verify that to be true, it becomes “common knowledge” or the view of “any one who understands the game”. Some guys won’t play without pay, to be sure, but assuming the biggest motivating factor for most highly recruited players will be a payment to their family of a fraction of what they will make as a rookie in the NBA ignores the reality for elite recruits-they all think they will be gone in a year or two anyway, they just need the right team to showcase their skills.


I am not and will never be in favor of situational ethics. “Everyone else does it” is not a justification. If that means we have a ceiling, so be it. DVH seems to be able to get above that ceiling, whatever it is. My point in the reply is that we don’t know yet if Muss can get above that ceiling either.

Having said that, if the NCAA joins the 21st century and actually allows athletes to be paid for NLI rights, than darn right we take advantage. I am not advocating we tie one hand behind our backs if it’s fair game. What Will Wade is doing is not fair game.

I completely agree with the highlighted portion.

As for the second paragraph, I agree with you, if the NCAA allows it then we should do it, but if they don’t (they are not supposed to now) then we shouldn’t.

I also agree about Van Horn, Bucknam, and Harter all seem to be doing ok without pay to play.

As for the NCAA not doing anything, I believe USCw is missing a NC because of Bush, and we are missing two because of Gay.

Louisville is missing one due to Hookergate as well.

I get amused when people complain about how the NCAA goes easy on schools. Exactly what are they supposed to do? I guess they want everyone to be SMU 1987, shut down for two years and crippled for three decades. Death penalty will never happen again, so don’t hold your breath. NCAA went overboard on Penn State for the Sandusky mess, and probably went overboard on USCw too. Their tools are limited. They can force them to get rid of cheating coaches, take away scholarships and postseason play, and vacate wins/championships. That’s about it. Can’t take away TV because that punishes the other school too. Ole Miss is going to need a few years to recover from Bucky’s mess as it is. Unfortunately we aren’t in position yet to take advantage.

What is the NCAA suppose to do? How about applying thier own bylaws equally across the board. Rules and laws must apply to everyone equally or they are not rules and laws at all. I didn’t start this thread to reignite my other. I asked for solutions. As usual none was provided. Just more insults and angry comments from posters and a so called moderator on this board. You don’t like my stand on the issue? Fine. You don’t care for my posts? Don’t read them. You wish to live in the fantasy world where the mighty NCAA will ride in and clean up the corruption, or is so impotent and powerless that it can’t stop it, more power to you. If you guys are fine with the status quo, THEN STOP WHINNING EVERYTIME WE DON’T WIN. And as just an aside, it pleases me to be called an annoyance, diruptor, a troll or whatever. Have a nice day.

The highlighted portion is the only thing in your whole 2 week discussion on this subject you’re correct about. That’s also why you are wrong. If Muss openly did what Wade did, we’d get hammered, LSU didn’t. Because the NCAA isn’t fair across the board.

As for winning, when have we played a game with Muss as the coach? Why don’t we let him actually coach a game before deciding we won’t ever win “the big one” without cheating.

At this point it’s quite simple.
The FBI surprised “everyone” with their corruption investigation into college basketball, which in turn got some programs and coaches in the crosshairs of the NCAA. The smoke hasn’t fully cleared from that yet by far.
If Wade wants to continue with the status quo then so be it, what’s he got to lose anyway now. It’s still 50/50 where he will be by next basketball season. I bet some other coaches / boosters / programs are backing off quite a bit with their paying players schemes, for the time being anyway.
Now to your point and suggestion we should just bite the bullet and come up with our own pay for play plan like the rest.
Ya think now would be the best time to start that with all of the attention already focused on it and a new coach in town who miraculously starts signing top 5-10 classes here at AR?
Personally I would rather see if he can start signing top classes due to him and his assistants NBA experience and selling a system that’s very similar to what’s in the NBA now. Somewhat like Cal does, but without the BS and sleaze balls involved with money such as World Wide Wes.
Not all top recruits go for the pay for play in college.

Not annoyed by your post and don’t take offense here but it is a drum well beaten.
6 months ago it was rampant on here-can’t win because we don’t pay for recruits and maybe if we had bought 1 or 2 MA would still be here. Gafford turned down the money to be a Hog and that says a lot.
Just think it’s time to let the new coach take charge and feed off his energy.

My thoughts:

First, a bit of a disclosure, I am generally speaking a “rule follower.” I am not as “bad” now as I was in my teens and 20’s, when I would not even do 56 in a 55. I had friends get pretty upset with me on trips because I wouldn’t do 60 in a 55 (that was back in the days when the interstates were 55). It wasn’t out of fear of getting a ticket, I knew I wound’t get a ticket at 60 on the interstate, it was just the rules said 55, so that is what I did.

So, still being mostly a “rule follower,” that taints my answer. In truth, my answer is “I don’t know.”

A few things I wish I knew, and would help with my answer: (1) While it is an “article of faith” that MSU (as an example) bought Perry. Is that really true? Don’t get me wrong, I think they did, but did they break rules? Again, I think they did, but I have learned in life some things I absolutely “knew” turned out not to be true. I am playing devils advocate as much as anything, but it sure helps to make a decision if you really do know FOR SURE, that others are cheating. (2) Has MSU (again for example) been turned in? MAYBE there is some kind of unwritten rule that says coaches don’t turn in other coaches??? (I hope not, but don’t know).

If # one is a “yes” and # two is a “yes” and nothing is going to happen to the MSU’s of the world, then the argues for, well, at least limited “cheating” on our part (not saying that is my conclusion, just saying argues for it). If they just haven’t been turned it, I think the “solution” is to in fact turn them in. Maybe there is a reason not to, I don’t know.

Another thing I would like to know is, assuming we lost recruits because we wouldn’t do the things the MSU’s of the world would do, just what kind of things are we talking about? Bag men with 10’s of thousands of dollars? or, organizing a “Alabama bump” where the coach “just happens” to run into a kid at school during a no contact time.

As someone else says, one is doing 120 in a 70, the other is doing 75 in a 70.

As much as I am a “rule follower” in my own life, if EVERYONE is doing 75 in a 70, you probably have to go 75 or 76. However, I sill am not, at this point, willing to go 120 in a 70.

I don’t know and I don’t know anyone who does know 100% who is cheating and how they are doing it. I’m like you - if it smells & looks like a skunk it probably is, and maybe on more than one occasion it really wasn’t a skunk or just a partial skunk.

As for coaches turning in another coach, don’t think that’s going happen, at least not on a public stage. Kinda like cops, lawyers, doctors, etc. unwritten rule of loyalty. Besides that may come to haunt you later on down the line in some form or fashion and not necessarily just in recruiting.