question

just a question for those that support anderson. disclaimer: not trying to start anything at all, just trying to understand where you might stand.

How long do you give Anderson to succeed? succeed is making the NCAA tournament. yes we all want more but i have lowered my expectations to just being a top 68 team. If we have another year next year similar to what we experienced this year do we still keep him? no NCAA next year or year after do we keep status quo? At what point would you as a supporter go on record and call for a change in the coach?

just so you know where i stand, i was a year 8er. so he did not make the tourney this year. i think he will be back next year, but my personal criteria remains.

Good and fair question to supporters and neutral fans, I consider myself neutral and try to arrive at a logical and not an emotional decision.

I have made it clear that based on the record of last five years within SEC and SECT and number of NCAA tournament appearances, unless you are an elite basketball school, you don’t fire the coach. To me logic defies firing. You have to allow a rebuildig year once in a while based on today’s environment. It doesn’t matter if rebuilding year comes in year 8 or 11.

For next year, if he does not make the tournament, he should be replaced. Logic says you should be able to rebuild in a year. Now if there are some weird circumstances come up that nobody has thought of before, you have to take a pause and consider. But if all else is the same, no tournament justifies firing.

If he does make the tournament, logic says you don’t fire regardless of how far he progresses in the NCAAT. Because that will be 4 out of 6 years of tournament play and will fatten his already good SEC record.

How do you determine what time period to use for trend? 5 years, 4 years, 3 years?

As a Coach Anderson supporter, I would like to give him one more season. Let’s see if he can bring any help during the spring signing period. And let’s see where all these investigations lead. Maybe it will drive out the cheaters who have been hired into the SEC over the past few years. Will the FBI and DOJ get them all? No. But maybe this will shame the NCAA and Power Five to start interrogations on thier own instead of waiting for the FBI and DOJ. If Coach Anderson has another disappointing season, then nine years is enough.

As I just responded in the other “survey” thread, I like Mike and have supported him from Day 1. But after 8 years, it’s “put up or move on” time.

For me, that means getting into the Tournament and winning at least one game next season. Period.

Me and you have had this discussion, you don’t believe the first two years and results are CMA’s fault, because he was fixing what Pel did. I actually think AR was worse than Missouri when he took over, so I would give him 3. BUT, I’ll go by yours. If you don’t hold his first two years against him, then year 3 - 22 wins and the NIT (1 win) year 4 - 27 wins NCAAT (1 win) Top 25 finish, year 5 - 16 wins (I’ve said he screwed up by not recruiting and letting the numbers work themselves out), year 6 - 23 wins NCAAT (1 win), year 7 26 wins NCAAT), year 8 17 wins (as of now, will we get a NIT bid?)

So by your own standards - 6 years - 22 win avg - 3 NCAAT (2 wins) - 1 NIT (1 win).

It’s hard to say fire him with those numbers. Now next year, I agree with most, he needs a tourney appearance and a few wins. But, I’m not sure him making the tourney next year and not winning would get him fired.

As for the original poster, I’ve stated I want AR to be in the NC conversation every year. That’s not an easy task, even if you think a coach can build a team in 3-4 years. When it comes to next year, he HAS TO make the tourney at a minimum and probably needs some of the 20 AR kids to commit.

CMA is a winner! Right now the APR could become an issue if too many moves are made! That would impact the number of scholarships the hogs would have available. That’s the first factor to figure out. Along with wins and losses that’s very important.
This is the first year we have failed overall.
Not bad but failed. There’s are things out of the CMA control that caused this.
Perry bought by MooU
Hall transfer.
Garland mediacally unable to play

It time to see if the team is improved next season. A starting lineup with scoring threats form the wings down low and the high post. Point Guard will not be a scorer
(Harris).
Above 500 in conference play and have a strong non conference schedule. There will be only 1 senior on the team next year!
I want too see some leadership on the court from at least 2 players.
There’s a few stats that better improve.
Don’t finish last in Free throw shooting move up to the middle.
3 point % would be really good if the shooters took them. Don’t allow a brick layer to jack up 100 / 3’s.
Everyone wants to talk about winning. Numbers is where the scoring comes from.
3 players on the roster were 15/ 100 on 3’s before the Florida game. That’s a whopping 15%. That can’t happen again.

Free throws. 502/728. 69%
Last in the SEC. There were 5 games this season that were lost right there.
Get it up!
You can dig into the stats that caused this season to be a failure and there’s your answer to what I want to see change.
I’m not for firing our coach!

In business, I have always used 5 years for trends, projections and planning. So, I tend to gravitate towards that.

I know you will ask why I used 4 out of 6 for next year. Next year, you could use 3 out of last 5 or 4 for the decision.

He lost me this year because I simply don’t believe he will ever have a Final Four team at Arkansas and that is the measuring point all Arkansas coaches should have in eight years. In his 17 seasons as a head coach he has never made a Final Four and that is a cold dose of reality. We had two decades of wonderful basketball filled with hope and confidence. We have had two decades with little hope and confidence… Anderson has been the head man for 40% of the last two decades.

Unless you catch lightning in a bottle like South Carolina did two years ago, or Loyola last year, Final Four is almost not attainable any more. Kentucky, North Carolina and Duke stockpile so much talent that you can almost pencil them into the FF. Connecticut was the same way but has fallen off significantly.

In the last 10 seasons (2009-2018), 10 schools have been to more than one Final Four; that’s 25 of the 40 spots. Obviously the other 15 spots went to 15 different schools. So 25 of the 353 DI schools have made it. Four of those 25 are non-Power 6, and one of those four is Gonzaga, which obviously has a very good chance to make a second visit to the FF this time.

Whoever said 5 year business cycle is spot on. Give Anderson the first 2 years to clean up the mess. This was year 6. If he stays for next year that will be year 7 after giving him a pass for the first 2 years.

It’s a direct reflection of the shoe companies taking over the industry and then ESPN throwing their full-throated support behind the blue bloods down to the point of pundits openly saying on the air that the can’t miss prospects “should” go to those schools (which the friends/family/handlers and hangers on latch onto almost every time).

Having done the research on the last 10 Final Fours, decided to go back and look at the decade of the 90s, which was much more Hog-friendly (three FFs) to see if the distribution of FF spots was any better. My guess off the top of my head is no, but we’ll see…

FF’s in the 1990s (asterisks indicate NCs):
Duke 5**
UNC 5*
Kentucky 4**
Arkansas 3*
UNLV 2*
Arizona 2*
Kansas 2
Michigan 2 (voided due to violations, but we’re talking about who got there)
UConn 1*
UCLA 1*
And 13 other schools with one each, no titles

So in the 90s only 23 schools made Final Fours. We were fortunate enough to be there, but it was an even more exclusive club.

Now we’ll look at the 2000s through 2008, which will take us to the start of my initial list. Of course that means 36 total spots in nine years.

Michigan State 3*
Florida 3**
North Carolina 3*
Kansas 3*
UCLA 3
Duke 2*
Maryland 2*
UConn 1*
Syracuse 1*
And 15 other schools with one spot each. Total of 24, but again one fewer year in this sample.

Basically, it’s never been easy. There are haves, who get there repeatedly, and a few others who are lucky enough to get there once in a blue moon. Now some of those blue-moons pop up about once a decade: Ohio State, Georgia Tech, OU, Louisville. In the 90s we were a have. Since then, not so much.

I posted in a thread a couple of weeks ago a list of coaches recently fired in the SEC. It was a trend among all of them that they missed the NCAA tournament multiple years in a row in their last few years with the school. Schools like Arkansas typically do not fire coaches after back-back NCAA tournament appearances, the only schools that do that are blue bloods.

Here’s the list again, and I’ve added Billy Kennedy since he was just fired today. Kennedy is actually different than the rest of the guys because he didn’t miss the tournament in back to back seasons during his last 4 years, however only 2 appearances in 8 years, plus health concerns, is what ultimately got him out.

Andy Kennedy - Last 3 years missed the NCAA tournament (2 NCAA tournament appearances in 12 years)
Mark Fox - Last 3 years missed the NCAA tournament (2 NCAA tournament appearances in 9 years, 0 wins)
Kim Anderson - Missed NCAA tournament all 3 years, 0 winning seasons.
Johnny Jones - Missed NCAA tournament last 2 years (1 NCAA tournament appearance in 5 years)
Kevin Stallings - Missed NCAA tournament 3 of his last 4 years, and that final year, he was in the last 4 in and got beat in that game. (7 NCAA tournament appearances in 17 years)
Anthony Grant - Missed NCAA tournament last 3 years (1 NCAA appearance in 6 years, 0 wins)
Billy Kennedy - Missed NCAA 2 of last 3 years (2 NCAA appearances in 8 years, 4 wins)

Now, last time I posted this, another poster said Arkansas is held to higher standards than these schools so we can’t compare ourselves to them. So, I went and done some digging on programs that were once really good and similar programs to Arkansas and seen their criteria for firing coaches. 3 schools I looked up were Georgetown, UNLV, and Memphis.

Georgetown (John Thompson III) - This is actually a very similar situation to ours, he’s linked to the coach that had the most success at the school, Georgetown, like Arkansas was a powerhouse in the 80’s/90’s and still have a fan base that remembers when they were really good. John Thompson III, missed the NCAA tournament 3 of his last 4 years. And his last 2 years were losing seasons.

Memphis (John Pastner) - Again another situation where this current coach is linked to a previous coach that had a lot of success at the school and school has great basketball tradition. Pastner made the NCAA tournament 2 of his last 4 years, with the last 2 years not making any post season tournament. And Tubby Smith was fired after 2 seasons with no NCAA tournament apperances. Tubby’s situation was different he just rubbed people the wrong way and didn’t embrace Memphis, so it was just a bad fit.

UNLV (Marvin Menzies) - Another school that was great in the late 80’s early 90’s and has a great tradition. Menzies only coached at UNLV 3 years, missed NCAA tournament and had no other post season invites all 3 years.

Being completely unbiased, coaches with CMA’s resume do not get fired unless it’s a UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC, a school that has won multiple national championships and had several decades of being great basketball programs. A lot of those schools I mentioned above want to win just as badly as we do and have hungry fan bases, but they aren’t firing coaches after back-back tournament appearances because they know how hard it is to get a coach that can do that. Now, if CMA doesn’t make the tournament next year, he’ll then be like these other coaches and it would be time to make a change, barring an amazing class coming in.

I know that was a long post, but that’s just my opinion on the situation.

I don’t think that I have rooted for a coaching personality at Arkansas to succeed as much as Mike.

For me, the standard at a tradition rich program among the top NCAA appearance programs - is making the tournament.

Yes, there are rebuilding years - hopefully between deep tournament run teams.

I’m not sure where I am on whether it’s best to thank Mike and move on or keep Mike.

But to those who say you can’t let someone go in a transition year after an NCAA year…

Question:

Didn’t we let Heath go within days after he lost in NCAA tournament?

Yes, but there were extenuating factors. They barely made the tournament as a 12 seed, got blown out in the first round, and there were all the off-the-court things that sent Dana Altman screaming back to Omaha.

Yes, but (you knew there was a but didn’t you), Heath had a madhouse, kids not graduating, bad APR (Pel gets blamed for this, but when Heath’s guys finally fell off the APR, it jumped quite a bit), drugs, etc…

That’s why so many consider us much better than Heath or Pel. CMA really did inherit a dumpster fire and he’s had to fix a lot of off court stuff as well as try to fix on court. Pel tried, but he really wasn’t good on court

So that’s it, Arkansas should never again get to a Final Four because of cheating by the blue bloods. The cheating now is certainly more sophisticated but it was full tilt in the 70’s/80’s/90’s and has never stopped or will it be. Nolan got us to three Final Fours and Eddie had three between Arkansas and powerhouse Okie State. A great coach at least has a chance to get that far and for all the good things that Anderson is, he is not a great coach. Some of us are more willing to find that great coach and live with failure if they don’t succeed than have no hope of ever getting to a Final Four. Of course this is a message board and opinions are meaningless for the coaching decision (going or coming) so the debate will only get more desperate for the pro’s and con’s of any position… that makes it fun even if we don’t have a Final Four in the future.

There is no reason to believe Mike Anderson absolutely cannot take us to Final Four. He has taken a team to Elite Eight and Final Four is just one step further.

If the belief is that he can do it at Missouri but not at Arkansas, then I don’t see why we think another coach can.

This is some of the most flawed, pro-Anderson tortured logic I’ve ever read. Seriously. PJ, you bring a lot to this board at times but you are hurting your credibility with this.

Coaching and basketball doesn’t occur in a vacuum. Times change, programs change, facilities change, strategies change, and the game changes.

What Mike did pre-Arkansas at Missouri has nothing to do with present day Arkansas. Nothing.

What hasn’t changed is a good fan base at Arkansas that loves good basketball and will impressively support it if winning. And what also hasn’t changed is that a good AD can get a very good coach — better than Mike these last 8 years — to come to Arkansas. No doubt in my mind.

So let’s see if HY is a good AD. I think he just might be. Meanwhile, let’s stop with the logical cartwheels to justify keeping Mike.