No TV or radio Sunday

Matt are you surprised that all basketball games are sold out with season tickets? Weren’t you a proponent of downsizing BWA? I guess with the right coach and winning level selling out BWA will still happen!

I’d take an arena with few seats but steeper seating any day, like Barnhill back in the day.

I’m not a proponent for fewer seats, but I have said I think some seats will be removed whenever it comes time for the arena to be renovated. There is a high demand for more club-level seats. I’m no builder, but it seems difficult to imagine you can achieve more club seats without sacrificing some of the existing seats, especially given that the arena was designed with the intent to put as many seats into as small a space as possible.

That sucks. I was really hoping they would stream the exhibitions.

That ain’t happening. It would require a brand new single-level arena and that ain’t happening any time soon either. Or at all. Suites and club seats pretty much make multiple levels mandatory.
I was in Barnhill in the glory days (both Eddie and Nolan) and I’ve been in BWA when it was rocking. BWA was at least as loud, probably louder. I think there’s some revisionist history from people who miss the Barn, that it was louder than it really was.
I agree with Matt that the coming reconfiguration of BWA will likely reduce capacity. Premium seats take up more space and they’re what pays the bills, and there’s really nowhere to add capacity without a major reconstruction which IMO ain’t happening either.

This is going to depend very much on perspective, i.e. where were you sitting in the arena for each. Someone that was on the floor or near the floor for both would have the best opinion. I sat 3rd row balcony for years at BWA, I did not think it was as loud up there as what Barnhill was, I didn’t have season tickets there but sat in multiple places in the arena.

Which is exactly where I was. I was on press row in both buildings, courtside.

I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about the people saying it wasn’t as loud. Maybe for them it really wasn’t as loud. . .

Yep, never commented on “loud”. I preferred Barnhill because the steepness of the seats. At least my seats made you feel more on top of the court, rather than auditorium type seating. Thompson Bowling was the model in my mind of a crappy arena because it was the opposite of Barnhill in that respect. Bud Walton wasn’t that bad, but it definitely was a move in that direction and did absolutely not feel like a “bigger barn” as was intended. Got greedy trying to get as many seats in there as possible, which less steepness achieves.

Fewer seats = more sell outs = higher prices. Inevitable $

You want steep? Sit in the UD. It’s steep.

I always thought Barnhill was unnecessarily steep. You get up high, it’s like being in the upper deck at the Superdome or JerryWorld (I haven’t been to a game at JW but I did sit in the nosebleeds at the Sugar Bowl). And Barnhill didn’t have a video board. You need binoculars up there. And I think they took that excess into account in designing BWA so that the worst seats there were better than the worst seats in Barnhill, with twice the capacity.

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Less steepness means fewer seats in the same area. Simple geometry. You have to spread out the arena footprint to add rows of seats the more rows you have. Making it steeper compresses the area required, it just takes more height.

Exactly. That’s why I said they got greedy and flattened it out. It’s just a trade off between atmosphere and game experience (steepness) and revenue (flatter for more seats). They went flatter for more revenue which is understandable, but not preferable to me as a fan. I thought the biggest problem with Barnhill was the dead spaces in the corners. That’s where a lot of seats could be added and what I expected they meant by a “bigger barn”. Barnhill was a special place and I think there was more to it than “Arkansans are better than XYZ…”. The physical construct of the building that put fans more on top of the court changed the experience for players and fans. I’ve always thought the “bigger barn” pitch ended up being very misleading because the Bud was nothing like the Barn as an arena, unless you’re just saying Arkansans are special so an arena will be special. Just say we’re building a bigger arena, period. Because that’s all it was.

Uh, no. Steepness is simply how much rise there is per row. A row needs a certain amount of depth whether it rises 8 inches above the row in front of it or 18. And it needs more depth for armchair seats, which is all BWA has except for the Trough, than for bench seating. But steepness is variable, once you add enough to make sure you can see over the person in front of you. And building codes limit how steep you can make it, because at some point it stops being going up the stairs and more like going up a ladder.

Example: you have 30 rows on one side. You have armchair seats, so to account for that, you allow 30 inches per row. Total depth, 900 inches, or 75 feet. But notice we haven’t said a word about height. If you make each row 10 inches above the one in front of it, it’s not too steep. If you make it 15 inches, it’s a lot steeper. But either way, the back row is 75 feet back.

And greed has nothing to do with it. But expense does. It takes more concrete to make it steeper; the roof also has to be higher if it’s steeper. Both of those cost money.

Barnhill has a lot of wasted space. Virtually no seats in the corner. So to get 9,000 people in there, they had to put a lot of rows on the sidelines and the baseline. By eliminating the wasted space in the corners, they got 19,000 people in BWA and the back row is still closer to the court than the back row in the Barn.

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C=SQRT(Height^2+Depth^2) where c is the distance to the the court, the only thing steepness does is let you see over the person in front of you better. The UD steepness is simply to keep the overhang of the UD from being any further than it is as the more overhang the supports underneath you have to have. As I recall, BWA has zero floor supports for the upper deck, hence the reason it is so steep. Being steeper also affects how big the footprint is of the building. The steeper the seating, the smaller the footprint of the building, steeper is also taller the building has to be. My favorite seats in the all of BWA are the first few rows of the UD on either side, great view and no one blocking you.

BTW Swine , this isn’t really a response to you, more just adding to what you said.

I don’t recall the rise of each step in Barnhill and how that impacted steepness. I do recall much less legroom than Bud Walton. Same rise of each step with less depth of each row (less leg room) = steeper seating but fewer seats per row, assuming a bowl-type layout where the seats encircle the court (like Bud, unlike Barn). Bud Walton is not as steep at least in part because the rows are much deeper. Great for kicking your legs out or going to get popcorn, bad for atmosphere, IMO.

Bud also has wider aisles that ridiculously converge in the corners with just a few seats between the rows and, initially, had 2 giant rows of press seating taking up tons of prime seating opposite the benches. It wasn’t a “bigger barn”, not even close and whoever designed it didn’t have that in mind - more like a 70 year old who was trying to eliminate as many inconveniences of going to a game as possible. Certainly their prerogative, but they could have done much better.

(Also, some of the disagreement on this maybe perspective. If you sat in the Barnhill nosebleed seats, Bud light be better. I was on about the 13th row of each and, no question, Barnhill was a better game experience for me.)

There’s a comfort factor and a safety factor. If you cram the rows together with 24 inch depth, you’re going to be uncomfortable, you’re going to have a hard time getting to and from the concession stands, and if someone were to need medical attention in the stands (rare but does happen), the paramedics can’t get there quickly.

IIRC I measured the row depth in the lower level at RRS (which is also cramped and steep) and it was like 26 inches. You can’t do 26 inches if it’s armchair seats due to building codes.

IMO the big problem with the atmosphere in BWA is not the steepness or the row depth. It’s that all too often it’s two thirds empty. Hopefully Muss has fixed that.

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Here is the less complicated math on seat steepness, you will need to be a minimum of 15 rows up for parallel view of a thunder dunk by Walsh/Devo/Smith/Black next season.

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