No basics - I don’t get it

We beat OU, Bama, and Florida this year. Ummmm…do they not have pretty good point guards? Research more Treat. A lot of the myths out there you’re quoting are just plain wrong

OU had nothing but Trae Young. We used a lot of zone on Florida and they mentioned it’s effectiveness in post game. Bama was up and down while also beating VaTech in NCAAT. You can twist any point and call it a negative name. I could say that all 3 of those teams have been erratic all year.

Come on guys this is getting silly. Mike isn’t getting the job done and all most of us ask is that he improve and stay. You guys are swinging hay makers at anyone that doesn’t bow down to Mike. I think a lot of this would calm down if you guys would stop trying to convince everyone that Mike is beyond reproach, we should be happy to have him for as long as HE wants to be here, that he is to be worshiped above the Hogs program, and that we should not expect ANYthing better. As long as you guys keep being dramatic about this then I think plenty of us will continue to take our stand as well. Most of us are level headed and want mike to improve but you guys are not being level headed at all.

Treat, none of us are saying anything but facts. The only guys claiming Mike ain’t getting it done hasn’t done their research.

I want to be in the NC conversation every year, but Mike has avgd 22 wins a year here. There isn’t a lot of coaches out there that would be an upgrade, and I doubt any of those that are better would leave their current jobs.

No one is arguing because we are satisfied with what happened, we are arguing because y’all are screaming to “Fire Mike” by posting crap that is untrue.

You claim to be a Hog fan, prove it. Quote anything I’ve said that is wrong about this. You can’t, but I damn sure can quote what you’ve said that’s incorrect, as a matter of fact I just proved your “we can’t beat teams with good PG’s” wrong.

I can shoot a few holes in a story but that doesn’t make it a sieve. Your facts are, your facts…plain and simple. Anybody can twist data and stories.

Be careful dude. This isn’t a good time to point out facts and actually make sense. Some of these so called “Hog Fans” have waiting on this moment for all long time and they aren’t going to let facts and logic ruin this for them.

You can point out CMA’s record, you can point out the development in his players, you can provide all the data that’s available to that proves he’s a good coach. It’s not going to matter to them.

And I agree 100% with you, I’m a facts guys, it really frustrates me when people post information not based on any facts to try to manipulate the narrative. If you didn’t watch any basketball and just listened to some of these posters you would have thought CMA just lead us to one of the worst seasons in Razorback history, rather than him playing one of the toughest schedules in Razorback history and leading us to our 3rd NCAA tournament in 4 years.

Over the last 14 season Mike has made it past the NCAAT round of 32 only ONCE while winning two games in seven years here. We lost BIG to UNC, Houston, LSU, TN, KY, AU, etc just like we did to Butler. The apologists want to convince us that the program is in good shape with Mike after getting blown out by Butler in the first round on the NCAAT which speaks volumes about the apologists. Our new AD knows basketball because he was a college player. I would think he is going to analyze the basketball program without emotional ties to Nolan or Mike. He can look at Mike’s 7 years of Conference rank with no tourney championships: Tied for 4th this year, 3rd last year, Tied for 8th, 2nd, 5th, 7th, and 8th in his first year.

We keep hearing how Mike is one of four 15+ season D-1 coaches without a losing season. Of those 4 coaches, Mike also has the fewest NCAAT wins in comparison. I just want Mike to adapt and take us to the next level. The problem is that I don’t think he will adapt and he could be gone in 1-2 years. I keep reading the excuse to keep him is concern about who is going to replace him? The same apologists tell us that Mike has the program in the top 3 of the SEC….but… The Apologists always respond with Heath and Pelphrey as good as we can expect to hire.

That doesn’t fly now. White and Broyles botched it then Nolan’s tanks in the streets exit was a nightmare that put us in a position to have to hire Heath. The experiment with Heath was not a success so we hired Altman who saw the personnel and APR issues and bolted after a cup of coffee on the hill. The knee jerk response was to hire Pelfrey and that failed miserably. Mike has repaired the program to a point that we can hire a good coach IF he doesn’t adapt and take us to the next level.

OK Treat, I’ve been off most of the day doing research. I’m not saying Mike is the man, but here is what I looked for and the results:

What people have said is Mike doesn’t win enough, he doesn’t win enough in the dance, and his recruiting is horrible. It was also said he was overpaid. So, what I looked for was coaches who have won more games than Mike, been to more tournaments and won more tourney game, but also out recruited Mike. Here is the list format

Coaches Name, last 7 years-number of tourney appearances-number of wins, what % of recruiting they are in - salary

Mike is listed first

Mike Anderson 151 wins 7-3-2 Top 12% recruiting $2.55 million

Out of 351 coaches, these are the guys that meet what everyone complained about

  1. Coach K 199 wins 7-7-13 Top 2% recruiting $9 million
  2. Roy Williams 199 wins 7-7-20 Top 6% recruiting $2.18 million
  3. Jim Larranaga 161 wins 7-4-4 Top 12% recruiting $1.56 million
  4. Mike Brey 165 wins 7-5-9 Top 12% recruiting $2.377 million
  5. Bill Self 208 wins 7-7-17 Top 3% recruiting $5 million
  6. Scott Drew 175 wins 7-5-7 Top 12% recruiting $2.8 million
  7. Jay Wright 194 wins 7-6-12 Top 9% recruiting $2.585 million
  8. Tom Izzo 191 wins 7-7-10 Top 9% recruiting $4.38 million
  9. Matt Painter 157 wins 7-5-5 Top 12% recruiting $2.3 million
  10. John Beilein 184 wins 7-6-12 Top 10% recruiting $3.38 million
  11. Mark Turgeon 157 wins 7-3-3 Top 8% recruiting $2.7 million
  12. John Calipari 213 wins 7-6-24 Top 1% recruiting $8 million
  13. Sean Miller 203 wins 7-6-10 Top 1% recruiting $4.1 million
  14. Steve Alford 174 wins 7-6-7 Top 3% recruiting* $2.6 million
  15. Dana Altman 203 wins 7-5-8 Top 6% recruiting $2.7 million

Notice only one SEC coach made the list

Bo Ryan
Rick Pitino
Tom Crean

These three are listed because they have beat Mike, but none were coaching as of this year.

This list doesn’t include Greg Marshall or Mark Few, both finished behind Mike in recruiting, which makes what they’ve accomplished even more impressive.

I could not let this go. You know that Archie Griffin was a Heisman winning running back, right? You know Marcus Monk played football and basketball for Arkansas, right?

Shhhhhhh…He thought he had a good point

This is some good information. Very nice job on the research, but just letting you know you probably wasted your time. The poster or posters you were providing this information to are going to simply ignore all that data you provided, because it doesn’t fit their narrative. They aren’t going to acknowledge any information that paints CMA in a positive light.

My best guess is their next move will be either…

  1. Completely ignoring your post and responding to me or someone else they don’t like and try to start argument there hoping to change the narrative and derail the thread.
    Or
  2. Moving on to another thread and saying the same thing and hoping not enough people see your post.

Here is another tidbit, our avg recruiting class is 43rd out of 351 teams. That counts the year we had Kapita and Whitt. We were a Top 50 class until then. If you take out that year (Kapita was a very unusual circumstance) in the other 6 years, we avg 36th. That moves us to the Top 9% and actually eliminates a few more on this list, but those on this list also have abnormal recruiting years. One of the teams avg’s 13th in the nation every other year since 2012, but avg’s below 50 in the other years. I don’t remember which team it is, but to me that’s kinda unusual and unique.

Now, if you’re just going of wins, Mike falls. Tourney appearances Mike falls. Tourney wins Mike falls. Recruiting Mike falls, but when you combine all four it shows the info above.

For example Frank Martin. He has only been to 1 NCAAT, but he’s been to the FF. Another is Tony Bennett. Virginia smokes us in every category but recruiting. We avgd about a half a % better.

Baked, my post says nothing about recruiting and that has not been a focus of my posting over all. I have mentioned it in passing but I have also stated that I don’t want to beat him up about recruiting in a cheating environment. I also have mentioned he has done a good enough job for me with the Barford class, Gafford class, and the incoming class.

As for the other points I made that relate to your post, I don’t think we are that far apart on our view of Mike. Baked, you love Mike and want him to stay AND I like Mike, want him to adapt AND stay. I like Mike, I think Mike is a good coach, I think Mike loves Arkansas SO I want Mike to adapt and stay to take us to the next level. I have repeatedly said this… I want Mike to adapt and stay. Conversely, I have said I am scared of how stubborn Mike is and the shadow of his Mentor making it VERY difficult to adapt and modify. I am concerned that Mike will NOT adapt and that he could be out in 1-2 years if next season flops.

I can’t think of one time I say he must be fired, but I have responded to the crowd that says we can NOT replace Mike with anything better than Pelfrey. I do not agree that the program is in such bad shape that we HAVE to keep Mike if he doesn’t adapt.

Again, I said what has been posted by those screaming Mike hasn’t done a good enough job. That was the four things mentioned as a group. That’s why I asked about Mediocrity. I knew what direction I was headed.

As for Mike, you may want to ask Dudley about my opinion of Mike, I definitely don’t love him and I’ve said multiple times I don’t think he can get us to where I want us (90-96 timeframe).

I just am showing everyone complaining and saying we can get a better coach (which is kind of what you’re saying) that to meet the four expectations that Mike supposedly failed at, there aren’t many that are better that could or would take his place. Literally. 15 and 3 more that are out of work (well 2 now, Crean has been hired). So, to meet all the categories that have been mentioned that’s the list we must choose from. Which one would come here?

Don’t assume I agree with your criteria and list. I also don’t want to limit ourselves to established older coaches. Otherwise, I am hoping that Mike adapts and succeeds so we won’t have to worry about a change.

OK, so what’s your criteria. You’ve said not enough trips to the dance, not enough wins in the dance, and against good PG play. I’ve touched on each of those. So, just so everyone know what your criteria is, that way myself and others will have a better understanding of why he hasn’t done his job.

If you want to say: he hasn’t developed big men, I might be inclined to agree, but others on here would argue. If you were to say, we need a low post coach that has experience playing that position I may (would) agree. Honestly, I’ve seen you say shake up the coaching staff, I wouldn’t necessarily be against that, but who do we get rid of? And who do we replace? Someone, said get rid of Scottie, I’d keep him for shooting fundamentals. There is a reason announcers talk about him being a great shooter. If Mike makes changes, these are the three assistants I’d like to see (whether or not it happens is a different story) Lee Mayberry (ball handling), Scottie (shooting fundamentals), and Corliss (1st choice, Big O 2nd, Kline 3rd, for post play). Lee, Scottie, and Big Nasty all play D. I also wouldn’t be against adding Beck to teach defensive tenacity.

All debate is non-sense until he adapts.
-We need Mike to adapt to multiple defenses that MATCH his roster.
-He needs to adapt his use of motion offense with multiple offensive sets when forced into a half court game.
-I would not replace assistant coaches or staff until Mike adapts because the pool of talent is limited because very few teams play like us and WVU.
-After MIke adapts on Defense and Offense it opens the door to new talent for assistants BUT I’m not sure that the current staff isnt able to adapt as well so thay can stay. They have to coach against today’s offense and defense schemes so they have to understand it at some level.

I don’t have time to argue today especially points I have not introduced. Good day to ya