I posted this on the free board

So I thought I would do the same here.

I looked at the last three coaches and how many kids they beat the elite schools for.

Nutt beat out elites for Ugoh in 2002, none in 2003, Michael Grant, Fred Beldsoe and Hillis in 2004, Felix Jones and Darren in 2005. Three out-of -state recruits with elite offers.

Petrino beat out elites for Joe Adams in 2008, Ronnie Wingo, Knile Davis, Darius Winston and David Gordon in 2009, none in 2010, Tevin Mitchel and Brey Cook in 2011 and none in 2012. Four out-of-state recruits with elite offers.

Bielema beat out elites for Hunter Henry, Alex Collins, Denver Kirkland, Dan Skipper and Reeve Koehler in 2013, Frank Ragnow, Brian Wallace, Bijhon Jackson and Rafe Peavey in 2014, Jalen Merrick, Will Gragg, CJ O’Grady, Hjalte Froholdt, Zach Rogers, Ty Storey in 2015, Devwah Whaley, McTelvin Agim, Briston Guidry in 2016. Twelve out-of-state prospects with elite offers

The four stars signed by Petrino and Nutt and their offer list doesn’t even come close to Bielema’s. I challenge you to go back and check. The BIG difference in Bielema and the others is his ability to go out -of-state and sign kids the elites wanted.

Every Arkansas coach will get the vast majority of in-state talent. The only way for Arkansas to be able to get where the fans want them is the ability to recruit top tier out-of-state talent. Only Bielema has shown the ability to do that since Broyles.

You guys want him to recruit better and he is.

To clarify, I looked at recruits that had multiple offers from elites. Not just one. If that was the case Bielema would’ve had even more.

Went to 247 and looked up the 4/5 stars between Petrino and Bielema

Petrino: 1 5*, 22 4*
CBB: 1 5*, 20 4*

Everyone on the 4/5* had at least 1 BIG offer besides us.

Now, I know different sites, list different ratings, but Petrino’s last two classes 15, and 19 ranked good for 6 and 8 respectively in conference. CBB’s first year (you know the year many claim was “lost” (by the way AA, HH, Ellis committed before Bret) was his highest rated class so far at 23, which was actually 13th in the SEC.

So, I know you and Dudley want us to say, WOW CBB is soooooooo much better, but the recruiting rankings, the stars, and finishes, just don’t seem to say that.

I’m not really talking rankings, I’m talking about beating Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Florida, Florida State, Texas, Miami and others for kids. To be honest, if you look back at some of the classes ranked high for Petrino and Nutt and the offer lists weren’t impressive. Not even close to Bielema’s.

People say you have to beat those schools in recruiting to get where you want to be. Petrino and Nutt didn’t come close.

FWIW, Hunter Henry was looking around after JLS got fired, but Bielema’s history of TE play convinced him to stay on. I didn’t include Austin Allen and Brooks Ellis on Bielema’s list and I should have. They had very nice offer lists.

You need to go back and check your math on 4* signed by Petrino, and then check those that actually made it to campus, or even stepped on the field.

That’s ok, I realized I didn’t count 2017. As of now you can add 3 - 4* to CBB. Now, I’ll be honest, I don’t think the 4/5* is the actual problem. I think it’s player attrition. Now, not counting the guys who left early for the NFL, I don’t see any 4/5* players under CBB that left early. I know three under CBP that I can think of off the top of my head: Barnett (who you mentioned), Funderburk, and Wade (who couldn’t stay out of trouble). I also saw several 3* that you could argue was underrated under both (for example Alvin Bailey, Dan Skipper, Korliss Marshall and Travis Swanson). You could also argue Petrino’s 5* was highly overrated.

I did. Thank you. It’s 22.

2008 Team rank 27 4 - 4* (SEC Rank 6)
2009 Team rank 21 1 - 5*, 5 - 4* (SEC Rank 9)
2010 Team rank 41 2 - 4* (SEC Rank 10)
2011 Team rank 21 6 - 4* (Scout had this class higher) (SEC Rank 9)
2012 Team rank 28 5 - 4* (Scout had this class higher) (SEC Rank 10)

Avg SEC Rank is 8.8

CBB:

2013 Team rank 23 4 - 4* (Scout had it rated lower) (SEC Rank 9)
2014 Team rank 29 4-4* (SEC Rank 11)
2015 Team rank 23 7-4* (SEC Rank 11)
2016 Team rank 23 1 - 5*, 5 - 4* (SEC Rank 9)

Avg SEC Rank 10 (This is what most consider the real issue, the other teams seem to have improved)

Didn’t count 2017, but as of now Team rank 26 3 - 4* (SEC Rank 10)

FWIW, David Gordon is the most talented DB Arkansas signed during the Nutt, Petrino or Bielema era.

It’s shame off the field stuff happened. I caught flack on message boards when I said David was by far the most talented DB at the Arkansas camp when he and Darius Winston showed up. The coaches knew who was the better of the two. He had the lightest feet I’ve ever seen. He could still be playing in the NFL today if he had his stuff together.

Anyone that saw David and Darius that day would agree.

Cook, Wade, and Funderburk were the only 4* in 2011. I assume you are going by the composite rankings? And again, you can’t count the guys that don’t make it to campus, or never play, lol.

Yes, composite rankings. They have it listed with 6. Don’t know who the other 3 were, I’m assuming they didn’t make it to campus. However, you CAN count them, because this is about recruiting, not who plays.

Went to Scout. 2011 Listed 4*:

Cook, Fisher, Funderburk, Minor, Mitchell, Peterson, Smothers

Wade was listed as a 3

Edit: Scout had Petrino with 2 - 5* (Cook and Winston) and 21 - 4*, it has CBB with 0 - 5* (Agim is listed as 4* which is lowest on any site) and 21 4*. Again I’m not counting 2017 (2-4*)

So, signing players that don’t make it to campus is good recruiting? Sounds like moving the goalposts to me, but nevertheless, I trust RD’s opinion on our recruiting over us non-experts, haha.

RD said signed. Not recruited. There were guys that signed that never made it.

You can make recruitng rankings say just about any thing you want if you move the first down marker to fit what you want it to say

I prefer the fact that there are now 24 players here that had legit Alabama or LSU offers as opposed to 4 when Bielema arrived

Another thing - isn’t it more about kids who actually arrive and play than those who sign and didn’t?

I mean that would make Jovan Pruitt a better signee than Dan Skipper

If you believe Petrino was a great recruiter and work tirelessly at it, then there is nothing I can do to change your mind

Most on his staff did.

I’m not here to argue Richard, but the most talented/highly acclaimed DB we signed was under HDN with Batman Carroll. He was rated the best DB in the nation by one of the recruiting services at the time. Lawrence Richardson from Galveston was also a Top 5 DB around the same time.

I understand the ranking stuff.

I’m talking guys I’ve seen in person. David had the best combination of talent, size, speed, etc. regardless what the services say.

Whatever happened to Gordon?

I never said he outworked CBB in recruiting.

What I said was the numbers, the rankings, and the end of the year results are saying he was better than what you and RD are saying. A lot of people seem to be trying to downplay what Petrino did here, because Bret is having issues (or it appears that way) this year. Yes, I understand there are people on here that love Petrino more than the U of A, but there are also people who feel that way about CBB. Go reread all the threads on this subject.

Now, you have never said he was a bad coach, but maybe a bad person. I do not disagree with that. My son is a freshman at college this year. If Petrino and Bret would have offered him a scholarship, I would have encouraged him to go to AR.

Now as for Pruitt, did he actually sign? That’s what RD originally said, who signed, not who played or who we recruited. I’ve already said in another thread that last Jan was the best collection of recruiting prospects I ever saw here, so that alone would give the edge to CBB (but I don’t believe any of those guys actually chose us did they?). Not saying Bobby would have landed them, I don’t think he would have got them in for a visit, and if he did I don’t think they’d have still played defense.

To this point, it would seem that CBB is not getting the most bang for his buck with his ability to get top tier out of state talent. Why do you suppose this is the case and when should we expect that he would?

That question may be asked too soon and better asked after all the results of 2016 are in. Hopefully this is all rendered moot in the next 6 games and we finish 9-3 or better.

What DOES matter is that CBB is not doing well enough in recruiting… Regardless of how many 4 & 5 *'s we have or don’t have, what matters is how he is faring in relation to the REST of the SEC…not good! You may say he “works hard”, but I don’t think he works hard enough! More offers and earlier! What is to keep us from offering EVERY Bama commit!!! If you don’t cast a line, you will never catch a big one!!!

So Petrino was 9th out of 12 teams. CBB is 10th out of 14. I think the in state crops have been weaker to pull from for CBB than it was for Nutt and BP. We have had less SEC caliber players home grown. That needs to change for Coach B. Arkansas kids have been a major contributor when we were relevant nationally through the years. Of course, CBB has no control of that. ghg

If he’s beating the big boys now, the results will get better as the win totals goes up. It’s a process.

Bielema has brought in more big ones than others. Again it’s a process.

As far as Bielema’s work ethic, Pittman told me in year one that Bret worked harder at recruiting than Butch Davis.