Heisman Ballot

This was my Heisman ballot this year:

  1. Kyler Murray
  2. Tua Tagovailoa
  3. Quinnen Williams

In my mind it was a two-man race from early October. If the vote were taken a month ago I probably would have voted Tua No. 1, but I was really impressed with how well Kyler played the final month when OU’s defense imploded and put pressure on the offense to be almost perfect. I voted Williams third because I thought he was the most disruptive defensive player I saw this year.

I really think they should rename the award the QB of the year award.

It has always been an offensive skill-position award. Only one defensive player has won it and no offensive linemen have won.

I think the number of QBs winning the Heisman correlates with offenses revolving around QBs more than running backs. Before Andre Ware won it, there had only been 13 quarterbacks win the award in 50-plus years. The majority of the winners until that time were running backs and fullbacks.

I always try to put a defensive player on my ballot, but I didn’t see a defender this year (or a running back or receiver) who was as dominant as the two QBs who finished 1-2.

Matt, I’m curious, most people I’ve seen that talked about their ballots put Murray and Tua in that order. My question for you and maybe others that cast ballots, to me Murray was the product of a very weak defensive conference, Tua, on the other hand, seemed to put up big plays against much better defenses.

So, my question is what did you look at to decide Murray #1. Honest question

Like I said in the original post, for me it came down to the way he played in the final month when the games were big and the OU defense made it to where the offense had to be almost perfect. The Big 12 defenses are bad, but some will argue that it is because of the talent of the offensive coaches in that league; it has become a destination for top coordinators. And the SEC defenses weren’t a whole lot better this season collectively. I think the average points per game in the SEC were 24 as opposed to 28 in the Big 12.

I guess a lot of how I vote is based on the eye test, and he stood out every time I watched him play, which was a lot. I read earlier this week (after the ballots were due) something along the lines of that Oklahoma had the most efficient offense in the history of college football this season, and he was a major reason for it.

Okla defense was one of the worst, Murray & the offense had to put up 50 or more just to win. Unlike Tua usually had 35-40 by halftime & only took about 20 snaps in 4th qtr all year.
Even Kansas put up 40 on the Sooners.

That’s kind of what I’m getting at. I understand what Matt is saying, but if OU played Bama, or Clemson’s schedules (or tOSU for that matter) they wouldn’t be in the playoffs. However if either of those teams played OU’s they’d be in, and Tua or Haskins May have better numbers than Murray.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I think OU will score on Bama, but I think Bama will gets some stops. I don’t think OU will stop (or can stop) Bama. That’s kind of why I (personally) don’t understand why people voted for Murray. As I said I understand Matt’s point, but if OU was trying that with Bama’s schedule, I don’t think his numbers would be the same, and vice versa, if Tua was on OU’s schedule the last month, he would have as good (at the least) numbers.

Again, JMO

Guys on the radio said same thing, because Murray was under pressure to score a lot almost every game up until the very last possessions. That OKla offense is prolific, but we will see against Clemson &/or Bama’s defense.

If Tua & Bama played OU’s schedule they maybe score 50 by halftime & Tua have had only 20 snaps in 3rd qtr. all year
Didn’t help Tua getting hurt in SECC game against GA & would have had to play entire game & score the winning TD late against a good GA defense.

They were both deserving & I couldn’t argue either one winning it.

All of this “they play no defense in the Big 12” or “hey, play an SEC schedule” criticism is growing a little old. You all break it out whenever any Big 12 team, or player associated with a Big 12 team, has any success at all. Meanwhile, Arkansas has not played any consistently good defense since the 80s to my memory. We ought to be the last ones to be critical of defense. And think of the boat racings some of these Big 12 teams would’ve given us over the years.

Said it all along, Kyler is the best this year. He deserves the Heisman by a substantial margin.

Oh, and now the Knicks and Oakland A’s have more Heisman winners than Arkansas. Let that soak in.

I can remember when it was basically a Notre Dame award. They had a tight end that won and a QB who ended up a running back in the NFL win. That changed when ND fell from an annual powerhouse and the voting shifted. Notre Dame has a very good team now but younger guys may not realize how much they dominated college football back in the 40’s into the 60’s or so.

I thought Murray should be chosen because he elevated his team more than the other contenders.Without Murray Oklahoma would not be in the playoffs and Alabama most likely would be.

Exactly…which is why Tua was so impressive…he put up his stats playing 3/4 of a year…he played cumulatively 3 games less than Murray. I think what Tua did all around was more impressive but Murray did give a lot of eye candy that voters couldn’t resist.

be interesting to see how coaches would vote vs journalists.

[quote=“Hawgjawbend”]

All of this “they play no defense in the Big 12” or “hey, play an SEC schedule” criticism is growing a little old. You all break it out whenever any Big 12 team, or player associated with a Big 12 team, has any success at all. Meanwhile, Arkansas has not played any consistently good defense since the 80s to my memory. We ought to be the last ones to be critical of defense. And think of the boat racings some of these Big 12 teams would’ve given us over the years.

Said it all along, Kyler is the best this year. He deserves the Heisman by a substantial margin.

Oh, and now the Knicks and Oakland A’s have more Heisman winners than Arkansas. Let that soak in.

[/quote]Leave it to you to bring this discussion back around to a Razorback slam. Thought the conversation was attempting to debate the merits of Tua’s accomplishments versus Kyler’s.

Yep, leave it to me. And leave it to you to espouse that all is well with Razorback football and that it should not be “slammed” for the ridiculous product it puts on the field. Taking shots at the Big 12 is tiresome. Like Baker and Kyler couldn’t kill it in the SEC too. The pro SEC bias on this board is silly, especially since the Hogs would get smoked in the Big 12 too.

  1. Tua
  2. Kyler
  3. Dewayne

I went back and forth the last weekend on this.

I was set on Tua going into Saturday, woke up Sunday with Kyler’s performance on my mind and was ready to vote for him, but wanted to sleep on it one more night.

Looked over the numbers again, put them in context and made my choice.

I was not going to be sucked in by that awful defense in the Big 12. Awful. That goes for Oklahoma, too. They fired their defensive coordinator in mid season. Kyler would not have done that in the SEC. Tua was brilliant in every game but one. And his team did not lose. Kyler’s team did beat Texas the second time, but did lose the first time.

I wish the vote was after all games are played. This is no different than picking national champ before the bowls before 1965.

My ballot:

1, Tua

  1. Kyler

3, Christian Wilkins, DT, Clemson (I always put at least one defensive player on my ballot. I’ve been doing that for 40 years and that’s how long I’ve been a Heisman voter. )

I’m like Dudley. You have to put stats in context. Trust your eyes. I don’t just look at numbers. The numbers in the Big 12 tell me one thing, they do not tackle anyone. Defenses are bad.

There is not one Big 12 team with a defense as good as LSU, Mississippi State, Auburn, Kentucky, Alabama, Texas A&M or Georgia. Not one.

Clay, so what? I know what I see with Murray. He’s the best. His running ability is the difference.

In recent years OU has beaten Bama and taken UGA to overtime.

Offenses like OU’s with a take-it-to-the-house running threat at QB totally change the game. Kyler is like Matt Jones and Vince Young, but a better thrower than both with a better OL and more weapons than both. It’s the best offense in the country that stresses a defense like no other team, including Bama. Mostly because of Kyler. OU’s offense is the best in the Big 12, but Big 12 defenses see great offenses like that on a more regular basis. No, Big 12 defenses are generally not great, but so what? Defense doesn’t win games anywhere like it used to. OU and these high octane offenses will outscore you. They are perfectly fine with doing that. They just need one more point to win.

If (this is an IF), tOSU lost to Maryland, and OU lost to Okie Light or Texas twice (both had leads in the games) and Milton didn’t get hurt, would any of you have considered him at all?

Past seasons don’t count. I’m looking at this season. Nothing else. Big 12 was without any resistance.

outside of Moo U, Alabama, and Georgia the SEC defenses were mediocre this year. Not to mention nobody has an offense as potent as Oklahoma’s this year, maybe Alabama. I think the most important question when deciding who to vote for is where would Oklahoma and Alabama be without Kyler and Tua. We already have seen first hand that it does not matter who the qb is at Alabama for them to win.