Covid 19 US deaths - did everyone but me know this?

Unless I totally misinterpreted this chart, they are reporting all US deaths from patients who had pneumonia and covid 19 as just Covid 19 deaths.

From the CDC reporting records linked below:

Through May 2nd - nationally reported Covid 19 deaths were about 68,000.

The CDC chart link below indicates Covid 19 deaths only, as 47,128. It then reports patients with both pneumonia and Covid 19 as 20,819, thus totaling reported 68,000 covid 19 deaths. If you look at the chart, pneumonia only, deaths (72,455) during that 3 month period showed 1 1/2 times more deaths than Covid 19 only deaths.

Is that not totally distorting the Covid 19 deaths, when pneumonia, by itself, has more deaths than Covid 19 by itself, over the same time period. Who’s to say Covid 19 caused the death if the patient already had pneumonia? Pneumonia is a pretty certain killer of the very elderly.

What am I missing?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

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There’s quite a bit of information out there about this.

“Note: Provisional death counts are based on death certificate data received and coded by the National Center for Health Statistics as of May 1, 2020," it says. "Death counts are delayed and may differ from other published sources.”

This word of caution is repeated throughout the page, in fact. Below the table of weekly deaths, it says, “Data during this period are incomplete because of the lag in time between when the death occurred and when the death certificate is completed, submitted to [the National Center for Health Statistics] and processed for reporting purposes. This delay can range from 1 week to 8 weeks or more.”

In other words, there is a very good reason the data show a drop in deaths for the last two weeks: because the data are incomplete and hardly up to date.

This all got started on Fox with Laura Ingram, Tucker Carlson, etc. Same bunch of folks who say that hospitals are coding non-Covid deaths as Covid to get more money.

Google around. Not that it will do any good for a lot of people.

That’s not at all what I asked. Regardless of how outdated the info is, I took that data at face value and used the reported numbers. Did you look at the 2 categories that go into those numbers (68,000 deaths). It doesn’t matter if the 68,000 is correct or not, it could be 98,000. In the national figures they are giving, they have included patients that died from Covid 19, which was 47,128 (who knows if the 47,128 is correct or not) thru May 2nd. Then they include patients who died with both Covid 19 AND pneumonia (20,819) to arrive at the 68,000 number. Whether any of those numbers are accurate is not material to what I was asking. During that same time frame, pneumonia, by itself, killed 1 1/2 times (72,455) as many patients as Covid 19, by itself did.

It is the combination of the numbers that seem to create a distortion. It is there in black and white on the CDC chart that they DO indeed add the 20,819 patients who died with both pneumonia and Covid 19 into the number of Covid 19 deaths. Whether any of the reported numbers are correct are irrelevant to the question I was asking.

How is that not distorting Covid 19 deaths when pneumonia is the bigger killer?

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Copied and pasted…

Pneumonia deaths are included to provide context for understanding the completeness of COVID-19 mortality data and related trends. Deaths due to COVID-19 may be misclassified as pneumonia deaths in the absence of positive test results, and pneumonia may appear on death certificates as a comorbid condition. Thus, increases in pneumonia deaths may be an indicator of excess COVID-19-related mortality. Additionally, estimates of completeness for pneumonia deaths may provide context for understanding the lag in reporting for COVID-19 deaths, as it is anticipated that these causes would have similar delays in reporting, processing, and coding. However, it is possible that reporting of COVID-19 mortality may be slower or faster than for other causes of death, and that the delay may change over time. Analyses to better understand and quantify reporting delays for COVID-19 deaths and related causes are underway. The list of causes provided in these tables may expand in future releases as more data are received, and other potentially comorbid conditions are determined.

… It’s complicated, but the doctors and scientists agree that Covid deaths are probably higher than current stats indicate.

COVID-19 leads to pneumonia much of the time. If someone winds up on a ventilator, it’s pretty much guaranteed that the virus caused pneumonia. But it’s quite plausible that some cases of pneumonia that should have been attributed to the virus, weren’t. Of course there are also other causes of pneumonia.

Harley, I’ve been screaming and yelling about the anomalies and unusual means of reporting CV19 for over a month on another platform. There are just some things that do not make much sense. I started tracking all the numbers from the day we had our 1st confirmed case, just so I could watch its progression. So every day at approx. the same time I pulled in all the CDC / Johns Hopkins data. Lets just say that around the middle of march is when the numbers started getting a bit strange. Why would you not want 100% or as close to that as possible accurate data for more accurate prediction models and the exposure , infection, death rates?

That is about the same time you begin hearing the stories of medical professionals being pressured to list a death as CV19 even if its was just a suspected death. That is also about the same time monies started moving around based on CV19 severity in an area.

I think the most important questions we should be asking in all of this is WHY WOULD THEY PLAY WITH THE NUMBERS and WHO WOULD GAIN FROM IT? For the life of me the only answer I can come up with is for political gain. In a chaotic situation, all manner of things can happen, elections can be won or lost, billions of dollars are moving around with “loose” over site at best, new laws get passed, old laws get trampled, freedoms get lost in the name of “temporary good of the public”, etc. The entire political shape of a nation can be transformed all in the name of “its necessary given the current crisis”. I know this is beginning to seem a bit doom and gloom, but if you really watch you can see things happening that during a regular time we’d be screaming our heads off about and it would never pass. Now it slips by barely noticed.

Ahh hell… this is a topic I’m very passionate about and could go on much more. What I see is very disturbing to me and it seems too many people are just not even paying attention. Anyways, I’ll stop there for now, plus I have a hunch this will border too much on politics that someone will remove it. Even though I made a very solid point not to point out either political party, partly because I think they are all corrupt and partly not to create the DEM VS REP finger pointing crap that always ensues.

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In the same 3 months, pneumonia, by itself, killed 1 1/2 times the number of patients that covid 19, by itself, did. That would lead me to believe probably the reverse of your 1st sentence would seem to be more prevalent. After all, pneumonia also attacks the lungs. Who’s to say that same person wouldn’t have survived Covid 19 if they hadn’t had pneumonia, which would have probably killed them anyway if they were elderly.

I was surprised that pneumonia was killing considerably more people than CV19, even during the peak of the pandemic. Why aren’t we more concerned about that?

Aloha,

I am with y’all. I previously stated in other threads about the CDC requirement of anyone dying with COVID-19 to be counted as a C19 death. I don’t think we will ever know any of the true data. Too many experts are slanting/ manipulating the data in favor of their agenda/ narrative. And today’s media unfortunately has lost any sense of creditability. I feel sorry for our children and worry about our country’s future. The drive for power and the philosophy of the end justifies the means is toxic to our freedoms, way of life, economy and well being. Integrity and honesty are lost virtues. Hypocrisy is the new norm. I can’t imagine when our country will ever be united again.

GHG!

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Pneumonia usually kills about 50,000 people per year.

The CDC data listed above shows over 72,000 dead from pneumonia in 4 months. We will never know how many might have had some COVID co-morbidity.

But 50K per year vs 72K in 4 months… There might just be more to the numbers than 2 plus 2 equal 4.

Guys, in my 84 years never before this year have our hospitals been overfilled, medical
personnel being as stressed and generally anywhere as many peope dying. Never, ever, have so many people in living assisted places die to this extent.

IMO, obviously, we have seen a terrible world wide new cause of death. I personally suspect many people have died with zero medical care at all, so they would not be counted in any form.

The saddest thing to me is on both sides of the politiclal world, some try to blame their opponents for all this. Frankly, we as a nation are in trouble as we are nowhere near a United nation. Sad.

It has been 15 days since Georgia reopened their state (under heavy media criticism). Deaths and hopitilization are down.

It’s time to reopen everywhere except problem areas.

It’s a 2 week delay, southpaw. Let’s see what the numbers in Georgia look like next week.

I have not seen new numbers but here in Georgia our totals were over 32,000 confirmed cases and 1401 deaths. That I think was for Friday totals.

I would love to see zero new ones, but this is not over yet.

As someone who has watched this on the frontline for almost 2 months, your logic is sound but there are a few holes in it bc of few things.

First, docs and hospitals have watched dozen of patients that act clinically the same as Covid + patients, yet they test negative with pneumonia and ARDS. In our area, we lacked enough testing supplies to obtain adequate testing early on and were not able to test some of these folks. I don’t know how you quantify these patient numbers, especially here in Louisiana where we were hit early and hard, especially in NOLA area where the area had lots of pneumonia deaths at home or elsewhere that never got tested.
Another issue was testing” user error” where a proper sample was not taken or not processed properly. This was a known problem here in our rural hospitals in Louisiana once we had capability to retest. These samples had to be taken really deep in nasal passage, then stored certain way and some of the smaller hospitals didn’t test well based on our repeats in larger hospitals in Monroe.
As a doctor, I can understand why the data is confusing to non medical. I doubt this is intentional on the part of docs…I’m not going to write Covid 19 on a death certificate if that patient didn’t have a negative test, but rather pneumonia/respiratory failure/ARDS which is what we’ve all seen as cause of majority of these Covid deaths. The public must understand that these patients when critically ill mostly progress along the same clinic path…in other words they “act” pretty much the same way. That’s why I think most of these pneumonia’s are being counted at Covid cases, bc the hospitals are screening them for other causes of pneumonia as well with other tests that lead them to believe there’s high probability these are indeed Covid 19 cases(sputum and blood cultures, etc).

Does this make sense? I hope so bc it can be misleading (I have to explain this stuff to my teacher wife). I’ve read a lot about this stuff and really don’t think there’s a conspiracy in the data. Now there IS definite politics in play from both sides, but I am not biting on that and just try to focus on doing my job and helping people.

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i live in Cobb County, metro Atl, our Covid deaths are up 74.2% since April 24.

Sorry to hear, daboar. My info came from Clay Travis. Maybe, he is wrong.

Thanks Hogdr. My cousin is also a doctor and he emphasized that doctors list the cause of death based on their best medical judgement, not because CDC or anyone else told them to classify deaths a certain way. To do otherwise would be unethical and cause for loss of license. There likely are some deaths that are questionable as to the actual cause, but I trust the professional medical community to do their jobs and so therefore, if we are counting numbers based on death certificates, I’d say that is “pretty close” to the actual number.

Stats can be spun both ways. The “proof in the pudding” is, despite turning away all optional procedures, hospitals are overwhelmed in these hot spot areas. When you have the morgues, cremetories, and burial processes slammed and overwhelmed, it is hard to argue that the seriousness of this pandemic is being exaggerated somehow. It just seems like there are folks getting real frustrated when they can’t just call it fake news and make it go away. When you have a dozen refrigerated trailers being used as temporary morgues in New York City and they are full, calling it fake news is just lame at best and criminal at worst. JMVVVVVVVHO

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Question Jeff…does having the pneumonia vaccine help reduce the risk of getting pneumonia after contracting COVID-19?