Complete fail

For goodness sake stop blaming all our problems on Watkins. He was 4 of 6 and had 7 boards against UK. He played 32 minutes because the rest of the guards were in foul trouble and generally sucked. He wasn’t the reason that we lost by 26. He didn’t go 2 of 12, 1 board, and 4 PFs like Hannahs. He didn’t have 0 boards and score half his points in the last five minutes after the game was over like Macon. He didn’t have 5 TOs like Barford or go 1 of 7 from the field and 2 of 5 from the line like Beard. Sitting Watkins isn’t going to solve all our problems. We just need to have two of Beard, Hannahs, Macon, or Jones on the court with him. He and Barford don’t play well together. I don’t care which starts but separate them.

LOL he played 32 minutes, those aren’t even good stats to have played that much.

Name me a 6’3 guard that can’t shoot past 15 feet and hasn’t made a 3 pointer in 4 years and I’ll stop being upset that we have a former walk-on averaging 23 MPG. When we’re trying to be a tournament team. I don’t think Watkins is the sole problem, but it’s a major problem if a player that is as one dimensional as he is plays a ton of minutes, I watch a whole lot of college basketball, I’ve never seen a player that’s as limited as him play on a good team. If you can name one, I’d be curious to know who it is.

I’m just so sick of spending my time and money on programs that seem to care less about it than I do.

I know the kids think they are playing hard. But. The effort just isn’t there.

That’s the only reasonable explanation for getting murdered on the boards at home by a bad team, letting their only scorer do whatever he wants and getting one stop (on a wide open miss) in about the last 10 minutes.

Enough is enough. Both programs.

It will sound melodramatic but I have to fight my butt off for everything I get and I’ve had plenty of chances to roll up in a ball and feel sorry for myself.

And, for those reasons, I can put up with a lot but a lack of heart and effort she toughness is something I can’t stomach.

I’m so tired of it. Man up. Have pride. Do the dirty work. Stop with the woe-is-me fold up at the first opportunity crap.

Am I perfect? Not at all. But, I’m a fighter and that’s what I want to see from my teams and my school and I just rarely see it anymore.

the heck with TAM next Tuesday…we better worry about Missouri on Saturday…or start looking towards the NIT…maybe

It’s just one game people, get real. :wink:

They bounce back with a win vs. Missouri, as somebody already posted, A&M is BIGLY and for a 3-3 start. They can still go 10-8 and make the tourney.

I’m just concerned we are going to lose Barford to the NBA after the season… :roll:

He…played…that…much…because…the…other…guards…were…in…fouullll…trouble. Capiche.

What is there to understand? Every guard with the exception of Barford played worse. If every college player had to score 20 points to justify playing 25+ minutes, every team in college basketball would score 100 points a game. They don’t.

Geezus, you made this exact same post a week ago. Let…it…go. We just gave up 1.2+ points per possession, and all you are worried about is sitting our best defensive guard? Ridiculous.

Here’s one. 6-3 Isaiah Briscoe last season. He played 32 minutes per game on a #4 seed shooting 48% on twos, 14% on treys, and 46% on FTs. Believe me, it’s better to not shoot treys than to take them and shoot 14%. He scored a point every 3.4 minutes. That’s compared to Watkins shooting 55% on twos, 71% on FTs, and a point every 3.7 minutes this season.

However, Briscoe did rebound, get assists, not turn the ball over, and defended well. Sound familiar? UK had Ulis, Murray, and, Willis to make treys. Hence, they could play a complementary player like Briscoe was last season.

You’re trying to change the subject now and just focus on Kentucky game. I’m not just talking about Kentucky I’m saying in general he plays too much. He averages 23 MPG and he can’t shoot an open 15 footer. I’ve asked you in a few different posts name a guard that plays for a good team that can’t shoot and never made a 3 pointer in his 4 year career. You’ve ignored that question every time I asked. You’re a stats guy, you won’t find any Manny Watkins 0/8 3 point statistic on any other senior guard in the country. Isaiah Briscoe is a horrible example, he was a one and done level player coming out of high school lol. Are seriously going to use that as your comparison? He’s just a talented player that had a bad year shooting, Manny Watkins doesn’t even take shots and can’t make them at all and hasn’t in 4 years. Isiah Briscoe could have been a second round pick last year. Manny Watkins wouldn’t be a second round pick on an All Arkansas team.

And I like CMA but he’s notoriously known for playing guys with less talent, for guys that may hustle a little harder. Those guys don’t win championships, those guys get you a 16-16 record, because that’s all we had last year was hustle guys and no talent. Notice Miss St. played their talented freshman and beat us. There’s no reason Manny Watkins should be getting more minutes than two 4 star players. He plays more than both Beard and Barford. We can go back and forth about Barford, but Beard? He’s been amazing this year other than the Kentucky game, no reason in the world Manny should be averaging more minutes than him.

Niel,

Here’s Isiah Briscoe’s current statistics you left out, he’s shooting 50% from the field, 39% from three, 74% freethrows, and averaging 15.2 PPG on a top 5 team. And you used him as a comparison to Manny Watkins, who’s never made a 3 pointer in his 4 year career, and probably only attempt a handful of mid-range shots. I guarantee you if Briscoe didn’t pick up those shooting numbers he’d be sitting on the bench next to Cal, figuring out what school he is going to transfer to in the off-season. There’s no excuse for being on campus 4 years and not being able to shoot the ball.

Gawd. YOU brought up the UK game, not once but twice. Every team that played UK last year would give Briscoe any jump shot that he wanted. In fact, they would send him to the line with gusto for an unguarded 15-footer. If you can’t see how that is pertinent to this discussion whatever his recruiting ranking was, I’m sorry, I can’t help you. Since Briscoe is playing this season, I guess he isn’t a one-and-done level player. His stats from last year are remarkably similar to Watkins this season up and down the categories. He was a starter on a good team. You have your example whether you want to accept it or not.

My position for weeks has been that Beard should be getting more minutes than just about any player on the team except Kingsley.

Good Lord. Go the read post. It was last season. None of the points that he makes this season get to time warp back to last season. See the point is that there have been good teams when a starting guard couldn’t shoot a lick. He’s a different player this season.

Alright, I’m done, this is my last response. If you don’t see the talent difference in Isiah Briscoe and Manny Watkins I don’t know what else to say. It’s a ridiculous comparison to put it nicely. Isiah Briscoe is a McDonald All-American and future NBA player, who struggled shooting as a freshman, and now shooting great as a sophomore. Manny Watkins is a senior, a former walk-on, who refuses to take an jump open shot, and when he does he misses horribly. How in the world you think that’s a good comparison, like they say in the toosie roll commercial, the world may never know.

Or maybe the more talented players should play as hard as Watkins.

You wanted to know if there was an example of a player like Watkins that started for a good team. It doesn’t matter one whit that Briscoe is better than Watkins this season or whether Briscoe eventually surpasses Michael Jordan in his career. He wasn’t better last year than Manny Watkins is this year. He started. UK was good. Calipari didn’t sit him last season when he wasn’t very different from Watkins. QED. This isn’t that complicated.

                Watkins (2016-2017)  Briscoe (2015-2016)

Min per:

FGM 8.3 8.4
3PM - 218.8
EFG% 55% 45%
3P% - 14%
2P% 55% 48%
FT% 71% 46%
FTM 33.5 19.2
TOV 41.9 16.6
ORB 19.7 22.3
DRB 6.8 8.3
AST 11.2 10.2
STL 16.8 31.3
PF 14.6 11.4
ORtg 127.3 99.6
DRtg 98.6 99.9

So, as compared to Briscoe last season, he makes FGs at the same rate taking fewer attempts, rebounds better at both ends, turns the ball over much less while getting almost as many assists, gets steals twice as often while fouling less, has a higher offensive rating, and has a lower (better) defensive rating. Yet, Briscoe played 10 more minutes per game than Watkins does this season. If Calipari was not bat-guano crazy to play Briscoe last season, it’s a difficult case to stay on Watkins back. You’re blind if you can’t see that. Making jump shots is not the only relevant skill on a basketball court.

I know I said I wasn’t responding, but this is probably the most ridiculous argument I’ve ever seen someone make on a message board and that’s saying a lot. Do you seriously think Watkins would play a single minute for Kentucky at any point in his career? You comparing their numbers would be like me comparing Grayson Allen and Kikko Haydar’s numbers because they both shot 40% from 3 at one point in their career. Briscoe is on a whole different level than Watkins. You can post all the numbers in the world you want that will not make Watkins and Briscoe comparable players. I can’t believe i’m even having to argue that. It’s one thing to be stubborn and refuse to lose an argument, but you’re taking it next level, and just throwing stuff out there, you think if you post a bunch of random stats it makes what you’re saying legit, it doesn’t. Nobody that knows anything about basketball would compare Manny Watkins and Isiah Briscoe.

“It’s one thing to be stubborn and refuse to lose an argument, but you’re taking it next level, and just throwing stuff out there, you think if you post a bunch of random stats it makes what you’re saying legit, it doesn’t.”

Thank you, Blu. That’s the most hilariously hypocritical statement I’ve ever seen posted on a message board. Yeah, it’s ridiculous to compare the Briscoe from last season to Watkins of this season. Briscoe was so obviously better even though he didn’t score, make shots, dish, board, or steal any more often Watkins does this season. Just random, kind of comprehensive measures of production. He was better just because we know he was supposed to be better. Proof be damned. Even so, Briscoe was a valued player on UK’s team LAST year because he could defend well, handle a little, and get to the basket on occasion. Extremely flawed but extremely useful with talent around him to compensate for his shortcomings.

BTW the stats reveal a slight difference between Kikko and Allen as juniors. Allen scores at twice the rate, boards at almost twice the rate, fouls at half the rate, and dishes at twice the rate. He makes FTs at 5 times the rate. Just a slight separation. Kikko’s got him on steals though. Interestingly Allen is shooting a mediocre 33% from the arc on a very good team. He’s slightly under 50% in EFG%. That’s not elite stuff. He’s probably not a first-rounder unless he picks it up.

There’s no parking in the red zone. All parking is allowed in the white zone.

So I’ll reach here.

We can’t blame the refs for this disaster.

That’s all I have… :shock:

Florida, Minnesota, Misstake, Louisville, and Kentucky run fast yet seem able to run and rebound!!!

Every style goes through changes but I can’t say that MA or NR have made any changes to their Hawgball. MA’s defense allows somebody to get open all the time. Is it the aggressive on ball double teams that needs to be changed to reduce open shooters? Rebounding has been a decades long issue for us. The decades long excuse about rebounding and the NR and MA style is getting old. We are playing more half court this year too, so shouldn’t that allow for keeping players in rebounding position? There needs to be some moderation of the scheme to insure that players are in position to rebound and which ones release for transition. We have the talent to rebound better.

Moses is a defensive stud but he is trying to be an offensive stud at the same time teams are gunning for the SEC POTY. It has been said in some circles that Moses needs to focus on Defense, Rebounding and let the offense come naturally to him. Moses has turnovers on offense and forced shots that are driving me crazy. He tries to dribble inside of 10 feet so he gets stripped most times. I think Moses needs a come to Jesus meeting :wink: about his offensive role. The guards need to be told to not force the ball into Moses if he isn’t in good position, so they need to get the ball to him in better positions. Moses has serious anxiety on the court that can be seen in his face. Moses came back to improve his draft stock, but then he was named the SEC POTY…now he has a MASSIVE target on his back to add to the pressure to improve his draft stock.

If Manny was a skilled player this argument might make sense. But he is a plugger who maxed out long ago. He would have been a role player for Nolan, not a starter.