Broyles like charm gives Bielema recruiting edge

Beating out the big schools a few times doesn’t change the fact that our recruiting classes have been average. The numbers are the numbers.

Now, if we can beat out Alabama for Luke Ford maybe I will change my mind.

This is what I posted back in Oct.

Nutt beat out elite programs for Ugoh in 2002, none in 2003, Michael Grant, Fred Beldsoe and Hillis in 2004, Felix Jones and Darren in 2005. Three out-of -state recruits with elite offers.

Petrino beat out elites for Joe Adams in 2008, Ronnie Wingo, Knile Davis, Darius Winston and David Gordon in 2009, none in 2010, Tevin Mitchel, Brey Cook, Mitch Smothers, Lonnie Gosha, Quinta Funderburke and Andrew Peterson in 2011 and none in 2012. Seven out-of-state recruits with elite offers.

Bielema beat out elites for Hunter Henry, Alex Collins, Denver Kirkland, Dan Skipper and Reeve Koehler in 2013, Frank Ragnow, Brian Wallace, Bijhon Jackson and Rafe Peavey in 2014, Jalen Merrick, Will Gragg, CJ O’Grady, Hjalte Froholdt, Zach Rogers, Ty Storey in 2015, Devwah Whaley, McTelvin Agim, Briston Guidry in 2016. Twelve out-of-state prospects with elite offers.

If you added the 2017 class you would have Chevin Calloway, Kam Curl, Jeremy Patton, Brandon Martin, Chase Hayden, Jarques McClellion to the out of state list of kids with elite offers. That would make 18 out-of-state kids with elite offers in five years. The list above has five classes for Petrinio and four for Nutt.

7 players in our 2017 recruiting class had offers from Bama. We beat out Bama for those players.

If you added 2006 to Nutt’s list. He did have in-state guys Damian William, Mitch Mustain and Ben Cleveland with elite offers, but no out-of-state elites.

Correction. Petrino signed Mitch Smothers, Lonnie Gosha, Quinta Funderburke and Andrew Peterson in 2011. So that would make seven out-of-state elites for Petrino. I just added to the post above.

Who we beat out is not as important as how good the player is. If we beat out Alabama and Ohio St. on a 4 or 5 star player then that is a big accomplishment. If we beat them out on a 3 star player then not so much. The bottom line is the talent level of the player, not who you beat to get them. The recruiting rankings for the last several years indicate that our recruiting is very average.

Most of the kids that Arkansas has beaten Alabama for were four stars and had early offers from the Tide.

If they are good enough for Nick Saban, they should be good enough for you.

You still have to coach them, but this discussion is about recruiting them, not developing them.

Why do you suppose that these kids we’ve beaten out Bama for have accumulated a 1-7 record against aTm and Mississippi State?

For the same reason I just added to the previous post.

It’s obviously about coaching and development.

But I thought this discussion was about recruiting.

Those are bad records against the two you mentioned. Curious why you singled them out didn’t add in LSU, Ole Miss, Auburn, etc.

He is 10-22 in the SEC, but 10-9 after starting off 0-13.

Thanks. Yeah I’d say coaching and development has been woeful under the current staff if they’re better recruiters than previous staffs as you and Richard believe.

This kind of goes along with my doubts of CBB. I don’t think he’s an exceptional coach, I thought he had a good record for development at wiscy, but it didn’t translate here. His development and in game management/adjustments needs to drastically change this season.

Because aTm and Miss State are programs I feel we are comparable to. Personally I don’t feel we are on the same tier as LSU and Auburn. Clearly ecstatic we have had success against ole miss and occasionally beating LSU and auburn is fine, but the terrible record against two teams in the West that I feel we are on par with is what disappoints me. Add in Mizzou. Sad!

The data proves Bielema is the best recruiter since Broyles. I saw the post asking if Bielema has beaten Alabama for the kids why isn’t the record better. That’s because Bama is getting a lot more, but to be able to beat them for the players they have is a good start. It’s something no one else has done other than Broyles.

Arkansas is a program that has to gradually close the gap with Bama and the top tier programs. It doesn’t happen in 4 or 5 years. It’s a process and part of the process includes winning 9-11 games on a fairly regular basis and that includes Bama once in awhile.

I’ve never mentioned the recruiting ratings like most like to point out. I say you have to beat the top teams on the recruiting trail and the more they do that the better the program will likely be. I do think a fair question to ask is if Bielema is landing more of the high caliber guys why aren’t the rankings showing that too? I think overall the services do a good job, but don;t think for a second there’s not politics involved.

It appears the talent level is getting better, but everybody has to remember that the talent level at other schools is getting better, too. That’s not an excuse; it’s the truth. Arkansas still finds itself struggling with depth issues in key positions. That’s on the coaches, at least in part. Some talent has not made the expected advances. But if Bielema developed talent at Wiscy, then he hasn’t forgotten how to do it in the SEC, but neither has any of the other $4M coaches in the league.

You are dead on. Depth is the problem. He has to build a 2 deep of players we are beating the Bama’s for. That takes time. I see it starting. The question is will we win soon enough for it to continue or will our losing ways stunt the growth.

We will see.

Which data are you referring to?

Well I suppose that is true but the question is are the players good enough for the recruiting services because they are the ones ranking them, not me. If you are saying the recruiting services are wrong or are irrelevant then that would be good to know. It would save some money for a lot of people.

Nutt beat out elite programs for Ugoh in 2002, none in 2003, Michael Grant, Fred Beldsoe and Hillis in 2004, Felix Jones and Darren in 2005. Three out-of -state recruits with elite offers.

Petrino beat out elites for Joe Adams in 2008, Ronnie Wingo, Knile Davis, Darius Winston and David Gordon in 2009, none in 2010, Tevin Mitchel, Brey Cook, Mitch Smothers, Lonnie Gosha, Quinta Funderburke and Andrew Peterson in 2011 and none in 2012. Seven out-of-state recruits with elite offers.

Bielema beat out elites for Hunter Henry, Alex Collins, Denver Kirkland, Dan Skipper and Reeve Koehler in 2013, Frank Ragnow, Brian Wallace, Bijhon Jackson and Rafe Peavey in 2014, Jalen Merrick, Will Gragg, CJ O’Grady, Hjalte Froholdt, Zach Rogers, Ty Storey in 2015, Devwah Whaley, McTelvin Agim, Briston Guidry in 2016, Montaric Brown, Chevin Calloway, Kam Curl, Jeremy Patton, Brandon Martin, Chase Hayden, Jarques McClellion. That makes 18 out-of-state kids with elite offers in five years. The list above has five classes for Petrinio and four for Nutt.

I classify elite programs as Bama, Florida, Florida State, Miami, Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma, LSU and Texas.

That is good information Richard but like you said in an earlier post, Bielema obviously isn’t beating out the elites often enough to move the needle on the recruiting rankings. Or, as you suggest, the recruiting rankings may be political, in which case those of us who shell out hundreds of dollars per year for those services should stop wasting our money.

The trouble with recruiting services is their ratings don’t always translate to on-the-field results. Granted, Top 10 recruiting schools are the ones who win the championships. There’s certainly a correlation there. But I don’t have to subscribe to a recruiting service to know some variance of Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, Michigan, Clemson USCw, Florida, Auburn, Texas, Oklahoma (I may have left someone obvious off) are likely to be among those vying for the playoffs on an annual basis. To do that, I know they will be recruiting the top athletes. All others are fighting for the best they can get, and nobody can know how their 4*s will pan out.