Best NL franchise of all time?

Got a question about this on Quora tonight which led to some research. The person who asked the question thought the two best were Cardinals and Giants with the edge to St. Louis. Well…

Most NL pennants:
Giants 23
Dodgers 23
Cards 19

Most postseason appearances:
Dodgers 31
Cards 28
Giants 27

Most World Series titles:
Cards 11
Giants 8
Dodgers 6

All-time winning percentage entering 2019 season:
Giants .537
Dodgers .525
Cards .511

If you assign a point value of 3 for first place, 2 for second and 1 for third in these categories, the Dodgers and Giants tie at 8.5 (2.5 each for the tie for most pennants) and St. Louis has 7. But the Giants’ clear edge in winning percentage pushes them over the top as a tiebreaker IMO (note: I’m not a fan of any of the three).

I would say the Cards.

While a large number of Arkansans are Card fans, I was a Reds fan growing up. I was sucked in by the Big Red Machine. So looked forward to the game of the week on Saturday’s when the Reds were playing.

I admit I am a life long Cards fan. So take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I go with the Cards due to the number of WS titles.

I have no “dog in the hunt”, as, unfortunately, I’m a lifetime White Sox fan and haven’t followed the National League closely. My unbiased opinion would be the Cards. I think the “best of all time” title always comes down to World Series victories.

Something worth noting in the discussion:

The Giants lead the all-time series vs. the Cardinals and Dodgers, and the Giants have had the Cardinals’ number in the postseason. The Giants and Dodgers, surprisingly, have never played in the postseason.

The Cardinals have an all-time lead over the Dodgers and have done well vs. the Dodgers in the postseason.

I would have guessed the Dodgers. You guys have provided lots of stats that would allow for either the Cards or the Giants to be the pick. I much prefer the Cards over either one of these teams, but I’ve got a feeling that the Dodgers are going to pile on some stats over the next two or three years to make a strong case for that franchise.

Remember the Brooklyn “Bums” never won a WS until 1955; seems like that team in the Bronx was always in the way. So the other two got a significant head start in that area.

The Cardinals were established in 1882. The WS began in 1903. So they’ve averaged one title every 10-point-something years since the Series began. Which is about what the Dodgers have averaged since they got the first one in 1955.

I still lean heavily toward winning percentage here. The Giants were founded one year after the Cards and in all that time have averaged winning three more games per season. That’s a lot over 136 years. Cards played better in October more often, but the season doesn’t start October 1. Giants have won more games, more Series appearances, etc.

Of course nobody in the NL can hold a candle to that team in pinstripes. The Yankees have 842 Series titles (slight exaggeration) and averaged the equivalent of 92 wins a year since they were founded as the Highlanders in 1903.

I pick the Cards using this as a tiebreaker.

The Cardinals have always been in St Louis.

Much of the Dodgers and Giants success has come since they moved west.
Cards have never moved.

So, is this the poster formerly known as jap66? If so, Hi John!

So? Where the success occurred is irrelevant, as long as it was in the National League.

The Dodgers won 12 of their 23 pennants in Brooklyn but only one of their six WS titles. The Giants had five of their eight WS titles in the Polo Grounds and 17 of their 23 pennants. They both might have stayed in the Big Apple if politicians hadn’t shot down their bids for new ballparks, and indeed owner Walter O’Malley of the Dodgers pushed Horace Stoneham of the Giants to move west because MLB wouldn’t approve the move if only one team went to California.

By the way, only one MLB team has 11,000 victories all time, and it isn’t the Dodgers, the Yankees or the Cardinals. It’s the Giants. Second place, amazingly, is the Cubs, who should get to 11,000 next year, followed by the Dodgers and Cardinals. The Yankees are seventh on the list, although the Giants got a huge head start on their old neighbors across the Harlem River.

Not related to the OP in any way, but a few other interesting tidbits. Only one of the 14 teams created since 1960 has a winning all-time record. Surprisingly, it’s the Angels, who as of Monday afternoon are ONE game above .500 in their history (4700-4699). The worst W-L percentage in MLB history? The Padres. The worst pre-expansion franchise? The Phillies, who would have to win their next 1170 games to get back to .500.

Jeff we will just have to agree to disagree on this. If its not relevant why aren’t the teams still in NY

While not in the discussion, the Braves couldn’t survive in Boston or Milwaukee. What would their record be if they were still in Boston.

is World Championships.

That’s why it is the Cardinals.

Yes, I am a fan and biased.

But WCs is all it is about in any sport.

When you have to use a point system to get the other two over the top, it states it rather simply to me.