Best NBA player from Arkansas?

Win shares and PER, the most important stats IMO, all point to Pippen.

Outside of this board and maybe one in Milwaukee, this would be a laughable topic

Yeah, I guess the actual stats must be lying huh? Keep trying, maybe you’ll be able to convince someone.

Pippen has more points rebounds and assists

If the question was who had the longest NBA career, that would be Pippen. Who had the most overall points, boards, etc., that would be Pippen.

Was Barry Sanders, less great because he had a shorter career? Was Jim Brown less great because he had a short career?

If Pippen had a 5 year career, Michael “may” not have had a 6th title. If Sid had played beside Michael, he “may” have had 7 titles.

Were both Sid and Scottie great NBA players? Yes.

When it comes to Moncrief, there are a lot of “could haves”. But Pippen has done it. I would definitely put Pippen ahead because he is a a Top 50 player as hog2009 said. And I still put Johnson ahead of Moncrief because of the “could haves” with Moncrief.

On the other hand, it is very understandable why a lot of fans would put Moncrief at the top because of what he did as a Razorback and is the most respected player ever in Arkansas.

But the original question was who was the best NBA player and not who did most for Razorbacks and who is the most popular.

1 Like

Talk to Don Nelson. Nellie would set you all straight.

“Nothing stands out with Sidney, and everything does,” says Nelson. “It’s not one minute, it’s 48. It’s not one play, it’s every play.”

Every damn play is right. Pippen had the stats and championships. But he wasn’t a fraction of the leader by example Moncrief was. Pippen did a lot of moping. Sidney — who also had the stats — is my favorite Hog of all time, in any sport. It’s an insult to Sidney to say Pippen was the best basketball player from our state. Sidney does not deserve to be insulted. Hallowed Hog. Legendary Arkansan.

Super Sid followed by Joe Johnson.

Pippen and Moncrief have remarkably similar career numbers.

Per 100 possessions:

points: 24.7 (Moncrief) 24.0 (Pippen)
efg%: 50.9% (M) 50.4% (Pi)
fts-ft%: 7.4 - 83% (M) 4 - 70% (Pi)
2pt%/3pt%:51.3%/28.4%(M) 50.7%/32.6% (Pi)
TRBs: 7.4 (M) 9.5 (Pi)
ORB: 3.0 (M) 2.6 (Pi)
Ast: 5.8 (M) 7.8 (Pi)
TOV: 3.2 (M) 4.1 (Pi)
Stl: 1.9 (M) 2.9 (Pi)
Blk: .5 (M) 1.2 (Pi)

On O Moncrief had a slight edge in points mainly because he was much better at the line, which makes for a more consistent scorer. He was a smidge more efficient everywhere but the arc. He was the better ORB. Pippen got more dimes but also more TOs. It’s virtually a dead heat, and one played with the greatest scorer of all time. On D Moncrief won NBA Defensive POY twice. Pippen was great at that end as well. It’s difficult to compare numbers because Moncrief was guarding guards and Pippen forwards.

Moncrief wasn’t voted into the top 50 for two reasons. One, injuries limited his peak years. Two, he played in a small market when 90% of the nationally televised games involved at least one of the Lakers, the Celtics, or the 76ers. If he had had the exact same career in a Knicks uniform, he would have been voted into the top 50. Personally I put more weight on peak years than steady long-term consistency. That leads to players like Moncrief and Walton to be criminally underrated by history in my view. Pippen and Moncrief were both great players. Neither has an open and shut case over the other.

Surprised no one ever gives Andrew Lang and recognition. Stats not over whelming but 11 years in the league should count for something

If you nominate Andrew Lang then Caldwell and Major Jones ought to be in. And Derek Fisher. None of those guys remotely compare to Sidney or Pippen. Or Joe Johnson.

I agree with this statement.

Let’s dont leave out Jim Bad News Barnes from Tuckerman. He had a solid career in the 60’s.

Interesting discussion.

All four Jones brothers were in that best Arkies list I found. I was surprised Caldwell wasn’t higher, honestly. Philly was really good with him in the middle, but he wasn’t around for the Sixers’ title; he was in the deal that brought Moses Malone to Philly, who did win the title.

Lang was 16th on the list. Corliss was 7th, just behind BP. Boot was 10th (Ronnie Jr. was born in Portland while his dad was playing there, thus does not qualify for this list). Joe Barry Carroll, another one that left Pine Bluff young, was 12th. Bad News Barnes is also on it.

Since I’ve referred to that list several times, here it is.

This was updated last summer so Dan Gafford isn’t on it at all. Wonder where he would be for the next update?

Good to see if no one else, at least The List agrees with my Top 3. See, JJ gets more respect outside the state than inside the state.

I think that is because he wasn’t on any great Hog teams. He was a great player, but left pretty quickly. I remember several years ago having this conversation and neither the guy I was having it with nor me even thought of Johnson until the conversation was almost over. Again, no doubt he is one of the greats, he just didn’t have much “greatness” while at UofA.

He wasn’t eligible his first semester. Then, he played a few great games before an injury which sidelined him.

When he returned from injury, he played gingerly for awhile until it was comfortable (understandable).

When he got going, his greatness was evident for his final stretch.

Then, he left for the NBA.

Hog fans saw very little if the true Joe Johnson.

That’s the way I remember it.

Joe was only a Hog for a season and a half (became eligible in December as I recall), and he did play on the team that won the SECT with four wins in four days. Honorable mention AA before he turned pro.

I understand. But did you know as a a Razorback that…

As a freshman Joe averaged 16 pts and 5.7 rebs per game. The pts average places him 3rd behind George Kok and Scotty Thurman in Razorback freshman history. The reb avg places him 6th behind Sid, Portis, Powell, Gafford and Hood. He was also 3rd in steals in history.

He was AP SEC newcomer of the year
He was AP all SEC 2nd team

The freshman season earned him pre-season SEC POY and Street and Smith preseason 1st team All-American.

Because of the injury prior to his sophomore year that limited him, he finished as a honorable mention AA.

Not too shabby as a Razorback.

Johnson should not be ahead of Moncrief unless longevity is heavily weighted. You can make the argument that Johnson was the better offensive player. but it’s a debate. Moncrief had better composite numbers like Ortg and was clearly better in the playoffs against tougher competition. Regardless, at the defensive end Moncrief is so much better that it doesn’t matter where you come down on O.

MJ couldn’t win a title without Pippen and vice versa.
Too bad Sid & Pip didn’t play on the same team in their primes and win some. I believe they would have.